Confidentiality of Tithes

[Sabby]

This "attitude" or mind set for ministry has destroyed a generation of preachers that felt they were never good enough because they didn't "fit" in with those with full-time ministry.
Let me expand a little here: not just preachers have been hurt by this dogma, but the entire ministry to the church. The pastor gets the potatoes and gravy due the lofty heights of his position that as the man a' God he is entitled. He, after all, is LABORING in the WORD, while his subjects in the church only labor at a "secular job".

It's time that preachers learned to live as do their own parishioners. Kinda like Jesus, isn't it?

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

If I were a betting man I'd wager you feel or teach 100% of the tithe belong to the preacher.

I'd also wager that your church does not know what your salary (or take) is.

I'd wager that you would not take time to teach a widow , who tithed on her gross income, that she is double tithing when you take her tithe her on her SS check.

There's more things than not obeying acts 2:38 that might cost one eternal life.

BUMP for Elder Epley Not asking you to wager. Just asking for an answer to the 3 questions, since we are all enjoying this discourse on tithing.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I see no clergy and laity division or rank structure in the word of God,while there are different callings and responsibilities in the church ,no member of the body of Christ outranks another.

[Truthseeker]

Where do some get there were 3 tithes in OT? Interesting the one that suppose to go to pastors is still for today, how convenient.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I mentioned Ezekiel 34, and it was in reference specifically to AtlantaBishop. He is a hireling. No one who cares for the sheep goes around running them down calling them fat heifers and exhibiting the hateful and arrogant attitude hed does towards others.

The Ezekiel 34 quote was not a general statement but a specific one. I'm sure it applies in many casees, but I would also be the first to admit that many who teach tithes are not bad men, they are simply (and sometimes willfully) biblically ignorant on the subject, having just accepted some cracker jack box theology and then taught it themselves without ever really investigating it.

Really don't this seem a little over the top to you? I am not saying I agree with everything he said but this seems to be more of the same to me.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

BUMP for Elder Epley Not asking you to wager. Just asking for an answer to the 3 questions, since we are all enjoying this discourse on tithing.

1. I do believe the tithe is for support of the ministry. The pastor is to live OUT of the tithe. He is to be in control of the tithe. That does not mean he keeps all the tithe. In my ministry knowing hundreds of pastors I have never met one who took all the tithe for himself. I surely never have but it is under my control.
2. I would have no objection in telling anyone what salary I placed myself on. Only a couple of times in my entire ministry has anyone asked me and I told them. But you know I never ask any saint in the church what their salary is? I would not tell a non-tither it is none of their business.
3. I have told folks who paid tithes on their gross they would have to use their own judgment on their pensions and SS. I have given tithes back hundreds of time to elderly saints or bought them groceries with it or fill their tanks up with gas. Or anomously sent their money back through other people.
I am not totting my horn because I do not believe I am any different than most pastors I have known. There has never been a saint I have pastored that has matched me on giving to the needy or giving to the church NOT ONE. I do not regret the groceries I have bought, school books I have paid, cars I have fixed, rents I have paid, loans I have made and refusing the payback, clothes I have bought, tires, washers, dryers, refrigirators, stoves, air conditioners, fuel oil, gas & electric bills, and the list is endless. Many times some saint told me about the need of a another saint(most of which never pulled the billfold and gave ONE dollar toward the need).
During those rough peanut brittle years my wife made the most of it with kids and my family sold it including myself. Who sat at bake sales and made most of the goods? My wife. Who cooked dinners for most of our guests? My wife. Who made sure the church was clean when the saint 'forgot?' My wife.
Now God has blessed us with much more than we deserve and you think I am going to allow tightwads and preacher haters to maek me feel bad because I don't have to buy day old bread and can buy a new pair of shoes and not buy used tires? Forget it. I have been abundantly blessed and now I have more to bless others.

[freeatlast]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Elder Epley

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Elder Epley

With all my failures which are many dodging a question is not one of them.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

1. I do believe the tithe is for support of the ministry. The pastor is to live OUT of the tithe. He is to be in control of the tithe. That does not mean he keeps all the tithe. In my ministry knowing hundreds of pastors I have never met one who took all the tithe for himself. I surely never have but it is under my control.
2. I would have no objection in telling anyone what salary I placed myself on. Only a couple of times in my entire ministry has anyone asked me and I told them. But you know I never ask any saint in the church what their salary is? I would not tell a non-tither it is none of their business.
3. I have told folks who paid tithes on their gross they would have to use their own judgment on their pensions and SS. I have given tithes back hundreds of time to elderly saints or bought them groceries with it or fill their tanks up with gas. Or anomously sent their money back through other people.
I am not totting my horn because I do not believe I am any different than most pastors I have known. There has never been a saint I have pastored that has matched me on giving to the needy or giving to the church NOT ONE. I do not regret the groceries I have bought, school books I have paid, cars I have fixed, rents I have paid, loans I have made and refusing the payback, clothes I have bought, tires, washers, dryers, refrigirators, stoves, air conditioners, fuel oil, gas & electric bills, and the list is endless. Many times some saint told me about the need of a another saint(most of which never pulled the billfold and gave ONE dollar toward the need).
During those rough peanut brittle years my wife made the most of it with kids and my family sold it including myself. Who sat at bake sales and made most of the goods? My wife. Who cooked dinners for most of our guests? My wife. Who made sure the church was clean when the saint 'forgot?' My wife.
Now God has blessed us with much more than we deserve and you think I am going to allow tightwads and preacher haters to maek me feel bad because I don't have to buy day old bread and can buy a new pair of shoes and not buy used tires? Forget it. I have been abundantly blessed and now I have more to bless others.

You are a good man Bro. Epley. I believe that and don't need any convincing. I also believe this to be true about my own pastor.

While I feel there should be more transparency and accountability to those who give, it is this fact that allows me to give freely and without remorse. There are many pastors who are trustworthy beyond reproach and would give their last penny for those God has placed in their care.

I believe you (and others) are like that and I think it should be said and not get lost in the greater debate.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

With all my failures which are many dodging a question is not one of them.

No you don't and I respect that.

1. I was right ..you believe 100% of the tithes are thsole propery of the preacher, (we do appreciate that you share them back when needs arise.)

2. Seemed a bit of a dodge to the question. You'd be willing to tell someone if they asked, BUT do you disclose in your annual business meeting, where all monies that come into the church, are spent? Such as salaries for paid staff.

or do you conduct a business meeting yearly.