John 1:12-13 discussion

Adino · #1 01-12-2012, 05:12 PM

Hello, everyone.... long time no see.

The following is from a minister recounting a discussion he had concerning John 1:12-13 which reads....

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What are your thoughts on this gentleman's position?

"Recently we heard a strange interpretation given to verses 12 and 13 of the first chapter of St. John in a feeble effort to prove that a man is born of God before he receives the Holy Ghost. The twelfth verse says that "as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become sons of God." Our contention (Jude 3) was that the "power to become sons of God" was the baptism of the Holy Ghost, and this we proved by referring to Acts 1:8. But to avert a sudden collapse of this argument the expounder attempted to prove this statement by putting special stress on the word, "Which were born.... of God" The fact that the word "were" was in the past tense seemed to give him a strong point in his favor, that they were born of God before they received power to become sons of God. If they had to be given power to become sons of God after they were born, what were they before they got the power to become sons of God........"

bbyrd009 · #2 01-12-2012, 06:12 PM

They were the sea, the waters; the unenlightened, or "asleep" mass of humanity.

Adino · #3 01-12-2012, 07:22 PM

He was the singularly irrelevant of comment

KeptByTheWord · #4 01-12-2012, 08:27 PM

First you receive HIM, then BELIEVE on His name, and THEN He gives us power to become the sons of God. Seems fairly simple to me.

Sounds like someone is trying to read more into it than the passage of scripture was intended... and like they are trying to teach eternal security or the Calvinistic type belief of once saved always saved, and that there are only an intended few that God has chosen. That is not what this verse is stating. There are certain things you do - receive Jesus, believe on His name, and then you receive the power... to become the son of God, and this doesn't happen by the will of the flesh or of man, but of God, by following the channels HE has laid out. This is available to anyone who chooses to come to God this way.

Adino · #5 01-12-2012, 09:11 PM

KeptByTheWord,

Thank you for your thoughts.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

Then you would not say "even to them that believe.... which were born... of God" further defines those who "received him"?

KeptByTheWord · #6 01-12-2012, 09:26 PM

Are you trying to simply better understand this passage, or are you trying to imply a new thought or idea from this scripture?

Adino · #7 01-12-2012, 09:33 PM

My concern for now is how the gentleman quoted at the outset of this thread understood this passage and if others here might agree with him. The person he had confronted believed "even to them that believe.... which were born... of God" further defined those who "received him" in v12. Would you reject this idea as well?

KeptByTheWord · #8 01-12-2012, 09:42 PM

i don't know, I am not a theologian. Not sure that I really understand the question, other than I am wondering if the person discussing this passage might believe in predestination or perhaps eternal security etc. Other than that, I don't really have much to add other than what I've already said.

Adino · #9 01-12-2012, 09:46 PM

Curious what makes you think he might believe in predestination or eternal security... can you elaborate?

KeptByTheWord · #10 01-12-2012, 10:46 PM

Well from a lot of reading that I have done, and certainly not claiming to be an expert in any way, still learning myself... but I think that John Calvin taught that certain people were predestined by God to be saved, and others weren't. I remember thinking when reading this how people could come up with such a belief. But I suppose it is scriptures about the "sons of God" and the thinking that God allowed certain people to be born who were intended to be the sons of God. I don't know all the specifics of what he and others taught on this subject, but maybe you could check into that.

Bottom line, though I don't see eternal security or any of those things in this scripture.

I believe it is like trying to see the forest and can't see the trees - the obvious is clear.

Receive Jesus, and he will give you power to become the Sons of God, by believing on his Name, being born, not of the will of flesh or man, but of God. Jesus also says "No man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

I think from my own personal understanding of this scripture, that it simply means we are born... of God, as many as have received Him, to whom He has given power, and even to them who believe on His name. And perhaps, John was implying here, that believing on his name was as important as receiving and believing in God.