Now is All; You Will; Ever Have - Page 2

bbyrd009 · #11 01-28-2012, 02:18 PM

Ha, Randy beat you to that; and if it will assist anyone in abandoning their "Eternity begins...someday, but certainly not today" and "there's really no way to know if that is God or not" ideologies, then amen.

Dedicated Mind · #12 01-28-2012, 02:28 PM

big bird, your words sound like you are saying something interesting but they usually go over my head. could you please share a little about yourself, like your religious belief, religious education background and some books you think are important? i would like to learn a little more about you please. thanks.

bbyrd009 · #13 01-28-2012, 02:52 PM

Ok, sure. I was "saved" at Temple Oaks Baptist Church, in Houston, Tx, attended many churches in the area, mostly of the pentecostal variety, came to understand, after a period of apostasy, that religion is the only thing really wrong with our conception of "Church," determined to find God without it, and have never looked back. I currently attend an independent church, and would say that a book that most comes to mind to point to as characterizing my beliefs is probably Original Creation, by Matthew Fox.

Dedicated Mind · #14 01-28-2012, 03:51 PM

big byrd, do you mean, "original blessing, a primer in creation spirituality"? that is the only book by matthew fox on amazon with original in the title. there may be some more with creation in the title.

so what brings you to an apostolic forum? are you familiar with the oneness of god and acts 2:38? i'm not an exclusivist but was interested in your views about apostolic doctrine.

bbyrd009 · #15 01-28-2012, 04:18 PM

Yes, that is the book.
I came here after finding a link to an AFF post about "Lee Bellinger."
I am only familiar with "Oneness of God" in a personal way, and so will claim ignorance of a "Oneness of God" doctrine that I am aware exists. If a nine year old can hear it and be edified, I'm interested. If not, then prolly not.
Acts 2:38 strikes me as mostly a dividing wall for...Apostolics? Based on the threads I have read here, and the interpretations I have heard that might literally add "..., and receive the gift of speaking in tongues," which is not in Scripture, and strike me as compelling by their absence. It strikes me from my short time here that this Scripture, or the interpretation of it, seems to be central to many "Apostolic's" self-definition, but I have had this subject broached to me since I came here, and the result was inconclusive to me, and so it seemed also to the Apostolic who broached the idea. I guess at this point I need a link to the "apostolic doctrine?" Ty

Dedicated Mind · #16 01-28-2012, 05:20 PM

since you asked, i'll give you my take on apostolic doctrine. others can comment. most christians have john 3:16 as their foundation scripture. apostolics have acts 2:38. acts 2:38 was the response on how to be saved on the day of pentecost by peter who had the keys to the kingdom. salvation therefore consists of faith, repentance, water baptism in jesus name "for the remission of sins" and the infilling of the holy ghost. some apostolics believe that salvation occurs at faith and repentance, while the majority believe that salvation requires baptism of water and spirit like john 3:5. tongues according to the book of acts is also the initial evidence of spirit baptism while some see the spirit at work from the point of faith.

oneness of god is different from the trinity in that trinity states one god, three persons. while oneness states one god, three manifestations. oneness belives in three distinct and simultaneous manifestations which are the same person. you can do a wiki search for "modalism" or read "the oneness of god" by david k. bernard. bernard also wrote "the new birth" that defines salvation for most apostolics. both books can be found online if you search.

since we believe god is one, we also magnify the name of jesus as being the name of the father, son and holy spirit. so acts 2:38 and 4:12 interpret matthew 28:19. if you have any more questions please ask, i'm sure others could comment as well. i'll check out that book by matthew fox. i'm an avid reader.

bbyrd009 · #17 01-28-2012, 05:48 PM

Ah, ok, yes, I was raised on all this, and ran at "modalism" then, and am returning to encourage as many as possible to run from it now. Put it with your eschatology, imo.

KeptByTheWord · #18 01-28-2012, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Ah, ok, yes, I was raised on all this, and ran at "modalism" then, and am returning to encourage as many as possible to run from it now. Put it with your eschatology, imo.

The problem is that none of knows for SURE, I mean, none of us have actually sat down with Jesus and specifically asked him to describe the Godhead and all its attributes. (Although many act as though they have...) One day... though... we'll all know... for sure.

There are so many scriptures for and against both the Trinity and the Oneness doctrine that the arguments go on endlessly, and in almost every post here on AFF...

However, about your statement of "returning to encourage as many as possible to run from it now" I would like to comment.

Myself being raised Oneness, and then a few years ago really beginning to study and read the Bible, I began to see what I'd always shoved back into my consciousness the thought that "something" is just not quite right with all the Oneness doctrine. The more I have studied, and prayed and listened to all the compelling arguments from each side on this forum... the more I have begun to see it this way.

NO.ONE.KNOWS.FOR.SURE.EXACTLY.HOW.IT.ALL.CAME.ABOU T. Each side is so sure they are right, and the other side so convinced vice versa. And each has plenty of scripture, and reasoning to back their arguments up.

I have come to see it this way.... if you think you have got it all figured out... then that is the mentality I want to run from!!!! Because none of us are God, and none of us completely understand the intricacy of his workings. I do believe in ONE and only ONE God, one Spirit, and that Spirit indwelling the Son Christ Jesus. Most won't argue to this point, but then those fine points of doctrine and the relationship between the Godhead sucks us in every time.

So, I am like you BB... I will continue to run from anyone who spouts off and says their doctrine, or belief in the godhead is the only way to Jesus. We are all still learning, and trying to understand.

Bottom line, the most important thing of all is faith in the work of Jesus at Calvary - that is still the most important thing we can do for salvation.

If our focus is the gospel, and the belief that Christ fulfilled the OT plan of salvation through the pattern given through the Tabernacle, that should be the ultimate goal and focus of our lives... not trying to figure out the exact workings of the godhead...

Just my food for thought on the issue....

bbyrd009 · #19 01-29-2012, 10:25 AM

Amen. It amounts to a bunch of kids sitting around postulating what it must be like to be an adult, only on a much larger scale. A person can easily get 'plexed with this, or spend years getting "settled" on it, only to discover that whatever def of God you got comfy with will become completely inadequate, and was never necessary.