A Picture of Jesus - Page 10

Praxeas · #91 05-31-2012, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

This is disputed in Adam's lineage, in Genesis,
as well as more than one place, OT and NT,
that will testify that "Satan was the father of Cain."

To say that Adam was Cain's father is to deny the truth,
written plainly in more than one place in Scripture, sorry.

You are confusing a spiritual idiom with genetic lineage.

Jesus told the Jews "You are of your father the devil" though they were decendants of Abraham. It's an expression not meaning the Devil had sex with their mothers instead of their human fathers.

Cain is spoken of in the same way, because he was the first murderer

acerrak · #92 05-31-2012, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Abraham did not come from a city in EUROPE.

how do you know where Heran is? sure we have a biblical idea but no one really knows. also i said he came out of a established city. meaning that there could have been other settlements of the time in europe after the tower of babel. very plausible idea, who knows. its all speculations isnt it.

Sam · #93 05-31-2012, 09:58 PM

Terah took his son Abram with him from Ur of the Chaldees/Babylonia to Haran in Mesopotamia or Syria. After Terah died, Abram entered into Canaan. In Deuteronomy 26:5 Abram is referred to as a Syrian. In Genesis 24 Abram sends his servant to those of his family who had not left Haran with him and the place is called Mesopotamia. In Genesis 28, Isaac sends Jacob to his father-in-law Laban and Laban is referred to as a Syrian.

strait shooter · #94 06-01-2012, 12:04 AM

The idea of Eve having sex with the devil flies in the face of very plain scripture, and to believe that requires wresting the Word.

Praxeas · #95 06-01-2012, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acerrak

how do you know where Heran is? sure we have a biblical idea but no one really knows. also i said he came out of a established city. meaning that there could have been other settlements of the time in europe after the tower of babel. very plausible idea, who knows. its all speculations isnt it.

ISBE

Through Terah Abraham's ancestry is traced back to Shem, and he is thus related to Mesopotamian and Arabian families that belonged to the "Semitic" race. He is further connected with this race geographically by his birthplace, which is given as 'ūr-kasdīm (see UR), and by the place of his pre-Canaanitish residence, Haran in the Aramean region.

And we know where Ur of the Chaldeans is..which SHOULD be a no brainer since Babylonians ARE Chaldeans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur

Haran
Haran (2)
hā´ran (חרן, ḥārān; Χαῥῤάν, Charhrán): The city where Terah settled on his departure from Ur (Gen_11:31 f); whence Abram set out on his pilgrimage of faith to Canaan (Gen_12:1). It was probably "the city of Nahor" to which Abraham's servant came to find a wife for Isaac (Gen_24:10). Hither came Jacob when he fled from Esau's anger (Gen_27:43). Here he met his bride (Gen_29:4), and in the neighboring pastures he tended the flocks of Laban. It is one of the cities named by Rabshakeh as destroyed by the king of Assyria (2Ki_19:12; Isa_37:12). Ezekiel speaks of the merchants of Haran as trading with Tyre (Eze_27:23).
The name appears in Assyro-Babalonian as Ḥarran, which means "road"; possibly because here the trade route from Damascus joined that from Nineveh to Carchemish. It is mentioned in the prism inscription of Tiglath-pileser I. It was a seat of the worship of Sin, the moon-god, from very ancient times. A temple was built by Shalmaneser II. Haran seems to have shared in the rebellion of Assur (763 bc, the year of the solar eclipse, June 15). The privileges then lost were restored by Sargon II. The temple, which had been destroyed, was rebuilt by Ashurbanipal, who was here crowned with the crown of Sin. Haran and the temple suffered much damage in the invasion of the Umman-Manda (the Medes). Nabuna'id restored temple and city, adorning them on a lavish scale. Near Haran the Parthians defeated and slew Crassus (53 bc), and here Caracalla was assassinated (217 ad). In the 4th century it was the seat of a bishopric; but the cult of the moon persisted far into the Christian centuries. The chief temple was the scene of heathen worship until the 11th century, and was destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th.
The ancient city is represented by the modern Ḥarrān to the Southeast of Edessa, on the river Belias, an affluent of the Euphrates. The ruins lie on both sides of the stream, and include those of a very ancient castle, built of great basaltic blocks, with square columns, 8 ft. thick, which support an arched roof some 30 ft. in height. Remains of the old cathedral are also conspicuous. No inscriptions have yet been found here, but a fragment of an Assyrian lion has been uncovered. A well nearby is identified as that where Eliezer met Rebekah.
In Act_7:2, Act_7:4, the King James Version gives the name as Charran.

You do realize all these names and words are SEMITIC words, not European? Right?

acerrak · #96 06-01-2012, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas

ISBE

Through Terah Abraham's ancestry is traced back to Shem, and he is thus related to Mesopotamian and Arabian families that belonged to the "Semitic" race. He is further connected with this race geographically by his birthplace, which is given as 'ūr-kasdīm (see UR), and by the place of his pre-Canaanitish residence, Haran in the Aramean region.

And we know where Ur of the Chaldeans is..which SHOULD be a no brainer since Babylonians ARE Chaldeans
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur

Haran
Haran (2)
hā´ran (חרן, ḥārān; Χαῥῤάν, Charhrán): The city where Terah settled on his departure from Ur (Gen_11:31 f); whence Abram set out on his pilgrimage of faith to Canaan (Gen_12:1). It was probably "the city of Nahor" to which Abraham's servant came to find a wife for Isaac (Gen_24:10). Hither came Jacob when he fled from Esau's anger (Gen_27:43). Here he met his bride (Gen_29:4), and in the neighboring pastures he tended the flocks of Laban. It is one of the cities named by Rabshakeh as destroyed by the king of Assyria (2Ki_19:12; Isa_37:12). Ezekiel speaks of the merchants of Haran as trading with Tyre (Eze_27:23).
The name appears in Assyro-Babalonian as Ḥarran, which means "road"; possibly because here the trade route from Damascus joined that from Nineveh to Carchemish. It is mentioned in the prism inscription of Tiglath-pileser I. It was a seat of the worship of Sin, the moon-god, from very ancient times. A temple was built by Shalmaneser II. Haran seems to have shared in the rebellion of Assur (763 bc, the year of the solar eclipse, June 15). The privileges then lost were restored by Sargon II. The temple, which had been destroyed, was rebuilt by Ashurbanipal, who was here crowned with the crown of Sin. Haran and the temple suffered much damage in the invasion of the Umman-Manda (the Medes). Nabuna'id restored temple and city, adorning them on a lavish scale. Near Haran the Parthians defeated and slew Crassus (53 bc), and here Caracalla was assassinated (217 ad). In the 4th century it was the seat of a bishopric; but the cult of the moon persisted far into the Christian centuries. The chief temple was the scene of heathen worship until the 11th century, and was destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th.
The ancient city is represented by the modern Ḥarrān to the Southeast of Edessa, on the river Belias, an affluent of the Euphrates. The ruins lie on both sides of the stream, and include those of a very ancient castle, built of great basaltic blocks, with square columns, 8 ft. thick, which support an arched roof some 30 ft. in height. Remains of the old cathedral are also conspicuous. No inscriptions have yet been found here, but a fragment of an Assyrian lion has been uncovered. A well nearby is identified as that where Eliezer met Rebekah.
In Act_7:2, Act_7:4, the King James Version gives the name as Charran.

You do realize all these names and words are SEMITIC words, not European? Right?

i realize a wall of text with no breaks is not worth reading cause its to rough on the eyes.. again i said speculations. europeans came from adam and eve as well. that is my point, and as far as i know Noah had only one wife so 3 kids no matter what geographical location would all be similiar, me and my brother we are white, doesnt matter what geographical setting we choose to dwell we are still white.

there is no difference if i settled in france and he settled in heran. we are still white guys. as i pointed out there couldnt have been much of a difference in the offspring either. so now until the tower of babel you have one race and from there those same people would spread out. after the tower of babel sure i think differences may have occured because God confused mankind language only? I personally dont think so. Color as well? I would say yes to that.

bbyrd009 · #97 06-01-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strait shooter

The idea of Eve having sex with the devil flies in the face of very plain scripture, and to believe that requires wresting the Word.

Ok well that is what you believe; I merely wanted
to point out that "there is, in fact, doubt,"
among trusted scholars.

A research of "Ish,"
"Geber," etc makes it pretty plain that beings other
than Adam had congress with earthly women,
and if you wish to believe that satan could not,
that is fine with me.

Science and common sense, however, don't lie.
Cain was the eldest; who might he have found in Nod?
Why does a skin graft from you get rejected by me?
What is the fruit of the tree of knowledge?
What is "Ish?"
What is "Geber?"

Rhetorical Qs, if you like.

bbyrd009 · #98 06-01-2012, 08:14 AM

For what it's worth, I think a "proxy"
is probable at "serpent seed."

acerrak · #99 06-01-2012, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Ok well that is what you believe; I merely wanted
to point out that "there is, in fact, doubt,"
among trusted scholars.

A research of "Ish,"
"Geber," etc makes it pretty plain that beings other
than Adam had congress with earthly women,
and if you wish to believe that satan could not,
that is fine with me.

Science and common sense, however, don't lie.
Cain was the eldest; who might he have found in Nod?
Why does a skin graft from you get rejected by me?
What is the fruit of the tree of knowledge?
What is "Ish?"
What is "Geber?"

Rhetorical Qs, if you like.

science is a great thing but some times science is wrong. the bible that we have today speaks of adam as the father of cain.

the bible says adam fathered cain. even the quran (which i dont care for states it) they have also seen the narritive of this story saying the same thing in the ancient dead sea scroll.

some jewish belief agree with you and they reject their own scriptures. so if there is scholars who reject such things i doubt they are many of them they reject what we have recorded

bbyrd009 · #**100** 06-01-2012, 12:13 PM

You imply a rejection of Scripture where there is none. I accept Gen 4:1
along with he rest of Scripture, but see that it shouldn't be read in a vacuum.
Adam fell, too, from the same "fruit," and I use serpent seed (most likely via proxy)
to avoid the "magical" answers that you would have to supply with your model, that's all.