You can pray...just not to Jesus.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by HRea

Actually the koran itself testifies that the God of the Jews and Christians is not the same as the god of the muslims. The god in the koran declares that he is not a father nor does he beget. The God of the Jews and Christians declares of Jesus Christ, "unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given", "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased", and "God so loved the world that He gave is only begotten Son".

Diving back into history, the god of the muslims had, at one time, three daughters (who were to be worshipped as goddesses), until their "prophet" decided he was tricked by the devil into revealing to everyone about god's three daughters.

I started reading the Qur'an about the time I started on this forum, and I would call this a mis-characterization at best. It states that one should follow Christ, and admits the sanctity of the Pentateuch. While it is written from a different pov, Christians have all the same concepts, and one, even Dordt, would be hard pressed to point to a single passage that they have any problem with.

As I'm pretty sure that all the opinions of any Muslim-haters come from Fox news, and not the Qur'an, I would invite you to post any passages, including any about Fatherhood, that you might have a problem with. When context is taken into consideration, these passages become clear; unless, of course, you pray to Christ (or Mary), or have some other Romish problem.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Nope!
Jesus is Lord and He's the only way to the Father.

The Qur'an does not disagree.

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

Don't get me going on the koran, a book designed by satan.

Oh, BAM, get going; what passage in the Qur'an do you have a problem with? I'll just hold my breath...

[HRea]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I started reading the Qur'an about the time I started on this forum, and I would call this a mis-characterization at best. It states that one should follow Christ, and admits the sanctity of the Pentateuch. While it is written from a different pov, Christians have all the same concepts, and one, even Dordt, would be hard pressed to point to a single passage that they have any problem with.

As I'm pretty sure that all the opinions of any Muslim-haters come from Fox news, and not the Qur'an, I would invite you to post any passages, including any about Fatherhood, that you might have a problem with. When context is taken into consideration, these passages become clear; unless, of course, you pray to Christ (or Mary), or have some other Romish problem.

It's NOT a mis-characterization, NOR is it muslim-hating to point out what is written in the koran. Seeing as you have studied the koran, you already know the passages that are written concerning their god not having a son; however, a simple google search will bring up several (not just a few) koran passages that emphatically, and clearly, state the the god of the muslims has not, does not, and has no plans to beget any son (context is very clear). It's not Fox News stating this; it's the koran itself. It is the koran denying that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It is clear from these passages that the god of the muslim is not the God of the Christians.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by scotty

Volunteer chaplains in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. will no longer be allowed to invoke the name of Jesus in prayers at public events held on government property.

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...ing-jesus.html

I would pray in Jesus name no matter what they threatened to do to me. I'd slap them with a civil rights law suit and scream persecution in every interview and article. Given the nature of religion, the government should be allowed to restrict ANYONE from invoking their god...whomever they might worship.

[Dordrecht]

As I'm pretty sure that all the opinions of any Muslim-haters come from Fox news.

Ah, get real! Just because people like me think the muslim religion is evil does not mean that I am a "muslim-hater".

You are pulling the same garbage as homosexuals....when one thinks the homo life style is wrong, one is right away classified as a homo hater.

Get off your "hate" stool for a change.

Christians don't hate muslims, mormons, homos, or whatever is out there.

There is a world system of evil trying to take over the world and muslims are a part of that evil system. Do we hate them? No we don't. We want them saved.

But I'm not going to tickle your ear and tell you I love your evil religion.

Oh, and btw, I did read the Koran and never watch Fox news.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by HRea

It's NOT a mis-characterization, NOR is it muslim-hating to point out what is written in the koran. Seeing as you have studied the koran, you already know the passages that are written concerning their god not having a son; however, a simple google search will bring up several (not just a few) koran passages that emphatically, and clearly, state the the god of the muslims has not, does not, and has no plans to beget any son (context is very clear). It's not Fox News stating this; it's the koran itself. It is the koran denying that Jesus Christ is the son of God. It is clear from these passages that the god of the muslim is not the God of the Christians.

Amen!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

I started reading the Qur'an about the time I started on this forum, and I would call this a mis-characterization at best. It states that one should follow Christ, and admits the sanctity of the Pentateuch. While it is written from a different pov, Christians have all the same concepts, and one, even Dordt, would be hard pressed to point to a single passage that they have any problem with.

As I'm pretty sure that all the opinions of any Muslim-haters come from Fox news, and not the Qur'an, I would invite you to post any passages, including any about Fatherhood, that you might have a problem with. When context is taken into consideration, these passages become clear; unless, of course, you pray to Christ (or Mary), or have some other Romish problem.

I have not read the "Holy Qur'an" as our President refers to it, but it is my understanding that there is a different slant on which son Abraham offered in Genesis chapter 22 and which of his sons was to be his heir.

[Sam]

Would this offend?


Lovely Lady Dressed in Blue

Lovely Lady dressed in blue ----

Teach me how to pray! 

God was just your little boy,

Tell me what to say!

Did you lift Him up, sometimes, 

Gently on your knee? 

Did you sing to Him
the way 
Mother does to me?

Did you hold His hand at night?

Did you ever try 

Telling stories of the world? 

O! And did He cry?

Do you really think He cares 

If I tell Him things-
Little things that happen? And

Do the Angels' wings

Make a noise?
And can He hear 

Me if I speak low? 

Does He understand me now? 

Tell me ---- for you know?

Lovely Lady dressed in blue ----
Teacj me how to pray! 

God was just your little boy, 

And you know the way.

[Sam]

this is lengthy and will have to be split up into several posts but it shows how Franklin Graham handled prayer "in Jesus' Name."



This is chapter 3, pages 21 through 34 of Franklin
Graham’s book The Name which was copyrighted in 2002.

There are factions of society today that hate God and
everything that He stands for. But I did not expect
such a vehement backlash. In America, where our
currency declares “In God We Trust,” it still
surprises me that when a Christian minister does what
he is ordained to do –read and quote from the Bible,
share the truth of the Gospel, pray in the Name of
Jesus –some people view these acts as borderline
subversive!

In January of 2001, our nation was perhaps more
divided politically than at any time I can remember.
The controversy surrounding the presidential election
vote count in Florida had polarized Americans. Even
though most voters were pleased to see a change in the
White House after eight turbulent years, according to
pollsters, nearly 50 percent were disappointed and
even convinced that Governor Bush and the Republicans
had somehow manipulated the outcome. In hindsight,
election officials and even the media concurred after
intense scrutiny and review, that this was not the
case.

My father has had the honor of praying or
participating in some way at eight presidential
inaugurations, beginning with the ceremony for Lyndon
Johnson in 1965. When it came time for Bill Clinton’s
second inauguration, my father was invited once again
to offer an inaugural prayer. Because his health
problems had flared, he asked me to accompany him to
Washington D.C.

During that ceremony, I was seated at my father’s
right side on the inaugural platform. To my left sat
all of the Supreme Court justices in their robes and
caps. Behind was the Democratic and Republican
leadership from both houses of Congress.

This spectacular event always involves much pomp and
circumstance. The election battle is over. The time
now comes for the government of this mighty land and
its citizens to inaugurate a president.

I had been impressed to see members of the opposing
political parties –in heated battle for the prize of
the White House just two months before –now shaking
hands and greeting each other warmly. Life for both
the nation and individuals would move on. Bill Clinton
would continue to govern. Bob Dole would return to
private life, make speeches, and enjoy other
productive activities outside the Senate chamber. What
a great nation and system of government.

When the time had come for my father to pray, the only
help needed was a firm hand to help him stand.

Following the ceremony the dignitaries and guests had
walked up the steps of the Capitol Building to attend
the inaugural luncheon hosted by the Joint
Congressional Committee on Inaugural Ceremonies. This
gathering has long been a tradition and serves to
further make the statement that that inauguration day
symbolizes our unity as a nation. My father had been
asked to offer the prayer of blessing for the food,
and so he was seated at the head table. I was seated a
short distance away, concerned that he would need some
help to the podium when it came time to pray. I
approached Vice President Al Gore, seated next to my
father, and asked him if he would assist my father if
needed. He graciously agreed and when my father was
introduced, Vice President Gore helped him to his feet
to make his way to the microphone.

Though the day had been filled with historical
pageantry, I was happy to put it all on the back
burner and head for the hills of North Carolina and to
my mountain home.

Now, four years later as the inauguration of the
forty-third president approached, the inaugural
committee eagerly wanted Billy Graham to participate
in the ceremony. Perhaps more so than for any other
president-elect, my father really wanted to do this
for George W. Bush. Some years before, while visiting
the Bush family at Kennebunkport, Maine, my father and
George W. had had a conversation on issues of faith
that had made a dramatic impact on Bush’s life, as he
describes in his biography, “A Charge to Keep.”

However, with weather forecasters predicting a cold,
wet January morning in the Washington D.C. area, my
father’s doctors at the Mayo Clinic had urged him not
to put himself at risk by attending the inauguration,
as it would be held outdoors. The Inaugural Committee,
on behalf of President-elect Bush, called and asked me
to give the invocation in my father’s place. I had
already been invited to speak at the president’s
prayer service at Washington National Cathedral the
Sunday following the inauguration, but to deliver the
invocation at the swearing in was another matter.
Years ago I had told my father that I would stand with
him and help him in any way I could, so how could I
say no? With a deep sense of responsibility, I
accepted the invitation and began to prepare. What an
opportunity –to pray for the new president and his
administration, as well as stand in for the man I love
and respect so much. I also saw this as an awesome
responsibility that could not be taken lightly.

to be continued in part 2

[Sam]

continued from part 1

Rev. Kirbyjon Caldwell, pastor of the large Windsor
Village United Methodist Church in suburban Houston,
was scheduled to deliver the benediction. Reverend
Caldwell was a friend of the Bush family and had
introduced George W. at the Republican National
Convention the previous summer.

I labored to construct a prayer that would invoke
God’s power. Millions would be listening. My deep
desire was to focus the nation on Almighty God, ask
for His blessing upon the incoming president and
outgoing administration, and to bring glory to His
Name.

The nation was still licking its election wounds. I
pondered the turmoil that the country was still
feeling as I wondered how I should close the prayer.
Many times Christian pastors praying in public forums
just finish their prayers with “…in the Name of God.”
But for me to do so would falsify who I am. I would be
disobedient by denying the One I follow. I have always
prayed in Jesus’ Name. I know of no other ground on
which a sinner like me can come before a God who is
holy.

Here is another way of looking at it. England’s Queen
Elizabeth knighted my father in December 2001, but he
was unable to travel to the United Kingdom to receive
this honor. Instead, the queen authorized the British
ambassador to the United States to confer the
knighthood upon my father in Washington D.C., on her
behalf. What if the ambassador had acted on his own,
without Her Majesty giving him that power? His
knighthood would have been meaningless. Similarly, we
have no basis or authority to come to God in any way
except through the Lord Jesus Christ –the
Representative God Himself personally sent to us when,
through our human striving, we could not reach Him.

Years ago as a young man I sensed that if
opportunities came for public ministry they were from
God. Now He had opened a door. I had been given a
larger platform –the opportunity to help direct the
eyes of the nation to God, To honor His Son, wasn’t
even a question. How could I do anything different
than to pray in His Name?

The Friday afternoon before the inauguration, I
attended a meeting of the platform participants
conducted by the Inaugural Committee. We met at a
Washington hotel to review the order of service. It
was in that conference room where I met Rev. Kirbyjon
Caldwell: tall, handsome, articulate –a powerhouse of
a preacher. After introductions, his personal warmth
made me feel as though we had been longtime friends.
We found a few minutes to talk privately, and Rev.
Caldwell said, ”Franklin, I want to ask you a
question. Are you going to pray in the Name of Jesus?”

“Yes,” I answered. “I always do.”

“Good!” Kirbyjon said, flashing a great big smile. “I
am too.”

I chuckled to myself and thought, “I like him; he’s
got guts for Jesus.”

Inauguration day, Saturday, January 21, the forecast
had been accurate. Temperatures were near freezing. A
chilling drizzle fell from the ground-hugging clouds.
My father had made a good decision to stay home.

My wife, Jane, and I arrived at the Capitol Building
at 9 A.M. and were taken to a holding room with other
platform participants. A couple of hours later we were
led to the top of the Capitol steps by a marine, where
a spokesman announced our arrival over the P.A.
system. I was seated in a chair placed in the same
spot my father had occupied four years earlier. I
could hot help but realize how God had used that
experience to prepare me for this day. From the noise
in front of the Capitol, I could tell a large crowd
was assembled, but seeing faces was impossible due to
a large bank of TV cameras in front of the stage that
blocked the view.

I was struck again by this smooth transfer of power as
dignitaries descended the steps and took their seats.
Although the presidential election had been vigorously
contested in a way unprecedented in American history,
the time had come for America to honor and install a
new leader. And in spite of political hostilities, our
country has always risen to the occasion with dignity.

When the last guests were seated, the president-elect
and his family were announced and escorted to the
platform as thunderous applause echoed through the
fog. Directly in front of me sat the outgoing team of
President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore.
Across the aisle sat the incoming team of
President-elect George W. Bush and Vice
President-elect Dick Cheney.

Anticipation swelled. People of such diverse
backgrounds and political persuasions had come
together in a moment of unity. The Lord, in His
sovereign power, was allowing me the privilege of
telling others about Someone more important than
anyone on that platform –the One bearing the Name
above all other names.

The time of invocation came and I made my way to the
podium. Speaking into the bitter January air, I
offered this prayer to God Almighty as my breath
turned to white puffs.

“Blessed are You, O Lord, our God.
Yours, O Lord, is the greatness and the power
And the glory and the majesty and the splendor;
For everything in heaven and earth is Yours.
Yours, O Lord, is the kingdom;
You are exalted as head over all.
Wealth and honor come from You;
You are the ruler of all things.
In Your hands are strength and power to exalt
And give strength to all.”

I wanted to make clear at the very outset that as
great a nation as America is, we are still dependent
totally on the mercy of a holy and great God.

“As President Lincoln once said,
We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties
of heaven.
We have been preserved these many years in peace and
prosperity.
We have grown in numbers, wealth, and power,
As no other nation has ever grown.
But we have forgotten God.
It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the
Offended Power,
To confess our national sins,
And to pray for clemency and forgiveness.”

I thought what Lincoln –one of our greatest presidents
–had said was perfect for our present hour, in light
of the previous eight years. Although in the same time
period our country had experienced abundant
prosperity, it was important to remember from where
all blessings come –the mercy of our heavenly Father.

to be continued in part 3