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  #81  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:17 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
Phenomenon?

For those of you who are Holy Ghost filled, loving men and women of God, this post is not for you. For those of you who are making efforts to live the best way you know how for God, this post is not for you. I recognize that there are many kind and loving Spirit-filled people in the Pentecostal ranks. So please do not take this post into yourselves. It is not for you.
And Brother Joe, I am thinking that this post is not even for you because when I was your age, I had the same responses. Frankly, I just did not know what kind reaction I was contributing to from people who were trying to tell me something with those responses I once had.

My response to your post:
So why do some of you people label others as "backsliders" when you know nothing about the other person? What purpose can you possibly have hidden in your heart to even have the need to LABEL somebody else as backslidden unless you want to describe other people who do not agree to some of your standards in a negative way?

You people react to negativism in the same manner as the "backslidden". Only you people use the many Bible verses to throw at the people you people reject because of the club rules and then chortle "It's bible". Yet, very few of you people will take a step to help restore people that are labeled "backslidden" by your group.

If there is any root of bitterness in people's heart, it is because the root came from some of you so-called Apostolics in the first place with all your man made rules and superior attitudes of you must obey "the man of God".

Don't you know that everybody who has the Holy Ghost is a man of God or a woman of God? Not just those who go to the Seminary or get Ordination papers by another group of people. It is who God makes righteous for only God can see what is inside a person's heart. All the rest of us, pentecostal or not, should take the attitude that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Yeah I know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. But some of you call it "root of bitterness" when you do not want to listen to how the people feel. I can speak of phenomenons likewise. That is a phenomenon where people cannot engage in honest dialogue because they do not want to hear how the other person feels nor expend any energy changing themselves and conforming to the actual Word of God in the Bible. Or they just do not want to leave other people alone to work out their own salvation with the Lord. Charity covers a multitude of sins right?

Sorry. I don't buy your statement. Many Apostolics deliberately shut people out of their church system by the way they treat others who do not agree with them. Those type of people are afraid of the very things Pilgrum mentioned. And I don't think most Apostolics are sorry for the experience they help contribute to a person who leaves, then labels them to be a "backslider". Some Apostolics tear down their own house, then blame it on their victims.




There are many people who hold to Acts 2:38 and believe it with all their heart. But there are many in your ranks who only look upon the outward appearance and determine that they are "backslid" and treat them horribly. I think that is arrogance to make such a determination in this manner. You may not do this, but there are plenty of people who do and others who play follow the leader.

I feel that most people who do leave is not because they reject Acts 2:38 at all. But more likely they reject the treatment they receive at the hands of the Apostolics for asking questions, for disagreeing with other things taught that are extra biblical.

The Bible has specifics about a brother or sister who is backslid.


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9,10

And
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

But many of the pentecostals lump the cutting of hair, the relaxing of the dress "standards" cosmetics, and used to be beards and mustaches for men etc to be
the measuring stick to tell who is backslid or on their way.

Heh. I've found people who are supposedly "in the church" guilty of one or more of the above scriptures, yet because they adhere to those "standards" they continue to just click right along.

Furthermore, there are many "holiness" people who go out of their way to persecute the labeled "backslid" instead of looking at themselves and the things they say and do that played a part in people leaving the system. They look at the "backslid" and accuse them of having a root of bitterness, all the while they themselves have a controlling, unkind and unloving greedy spirit.

And...there are some out there that preach outright lies for reasons only known to God and to them. You see we may not know these reasons, but God surely does and it does not mean we have to sit in a pew and become indoctrinated with it.
I'm sorry you have had these experiences. Not the way Christ intended it to be.

Your entire response can best be directed at those who abuse and twist people who have slidden away.

Again. Anyone who has left Acts 2:38, One God, and Holiness are considered backslidden, and I will not fellowship with them after that point. That's Bible too, by the way.
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  #82  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:18 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Stephen View Post
Well now, we can see by this conversation on the subject of falling away, stills brings to light personal feelings, and things taught that we disagree with. Regrettably so, but, it really concerns me, that the reality here, is not what we think, but what are we doing about it. You all know who lacks here, or who may be teaching us all of a known truth, are we living according to his word. Argumentative yes or no. If there is no conviction, god given, the life suffers because of it. So, my dear friends, we have indeed, just entered into the personal question that is presented to each one of us , " do you have a personal walk with god]? I do, and with great respect to the young andrew 8383, we simply say, amen.
I like this.
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  #83  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:23 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
I find that finger pointers and the so called "bitter" are in the groups "Those that left" and "those that stayed"

I think most people agree with Holiness, we just don't all agree that some orgs "standard" of "outward Holiness" applies to everyone as God's idea of Holiness
I would agree with this.

Outward holiness and modest dress, in my opinion, has always been a condition of the heart. If the heart isn't ready for it, don't do it. I do understand the pressure that's felt when people come into Church and they realize everyone is dressed a certain way, the need to conform to fit in is quite burdensome. There is a balance that can be found, however.
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  #84  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:27 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

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Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
Very well.

Do you see how this unfettered deference could be problematic to "proving all things"? How about not eating red meat, or sex only for the purpose of procreation, or a pastor requiring, then laying claim to, all tithe income?
For nearly all of those examples, the Bible tells me that if I'm in the presence of one of my brothers or sisters who doesn't eat red meat because they feel (for whatever reason) God would be displeased, the last thing I would do is order me a big ole medium rare steak and eat it in front of them. Why? Because I would create a stumbling block for them.

There is a principle in this when Paul was talking about this in his letter to the Church at Corinth.

I want to edify people, not tear them down. I want to encourage them. Not level their faith in God.
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  #85  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:30 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam View Post
...I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard....

A pastor who teaches that a beard is prohibited then teaches salvation by one who had his beard plucked for the sins of the saved is following neither the teachings of the apostles nor of Jesus who they followed

Pehaps those who have turned away have turned from following such pastors to following Jesus. This should make you rejoice, not sad.
Context, context, context.

Say it with me...
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  #86  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:33 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
The Forum has defined what Apostolic is many times.

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

There is One God. This one God reveals Himself as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.



Clothing standards are not listed.




Who would not think that this post in it's content is critical about people who do not adhere to the "old standards and ways"? I read it as he is referring to people who do not live those old standards and ways as backslid. And he is angry about it...so this can be thought of as a debate intent? Was anything mentioned about what his family was doing in their lives to be deserving of the label of "backslid"?

Are they doing any or all of the things in Galatian 5?

Perhaps we should establish exactly what the definition of "backslid" is because people have and do use the term way too loosely.
I understood the spirit in which he was talking.

There is a great shaking happening right now. Everything that can be shook, will be shook.

You think I'm gonna flop out because I don't agree with wearing no shorts and loose my salvation over a spirit of rebellion? While wearing shorts won't cost me my salvation, a spirit of rebellion will. And I believe with all my heart that GOD sent me to my Man of God and until I'm released I'm in utter obedience.

I'm hanging on tight and I'll let my Pastor and leaders give an account to God for any non-biblical issues...
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  #87  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:41 PM
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

People don't want to be told what to do anymore. They don't want to be corrected on anything. Men have the biggest issue with this, but women as well. Pastors aren't allowed to say anything that will make anyone feel uncomfortable anymore.

God help us. In the time we need to be united the most against the enemy, we are fragmented over shorts, make-up, and television...

We need to get lost in the presence of God, then we wouldn't have time to squabble over standards...
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  #88  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:46 PM
Walks_in_islam Walks_in_islam is offline
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Re: Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

Say this with me: It is false teaching to teach that things that are not in the bible are critical or matter to salvation

Your pastor would toss Jesus himself from his stage. Thus the falling away of those who would wish to follow Jesus rather than those such as your pastor. Or you, if you teach these things. Your sadness is the sadness of one who loses gain for only himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJoe View Post
Context, context, context.

Say it with me...

Last edited by Walks_in_islam; 07-05-2012 at 05:48 PM.
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  #89  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:47 PM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJoe
People don't want to be told what to do anymore. They don't want to be corrected on anything. Men have the biggest issue with this, but women as well. Pastors aren't allowed to say anything that will make anyone feel uncomfortable anymore.

God help us. In the time we need to be united the most against the enemy, we are fragmented over shorts, make-up, and television...

We need to get lost in the presence of God, then we wouldn't have time to squabble over standards...
We don't care that you think you can earn your salvation by following your pastor's rules that are based on poor exegesis and misinterpreted Scriptures.

It is YOUR side that condemns us for walking in freedom.
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  #90  
Old 07-05-2012, 05:48 PM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroJoe

Context, context, context.

Say it with me...
Exactly why you're wrong.
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