Tattoos

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

My only issue with your position is that you seem to imply that "possessed" people are unreachable. This is not backed by scripture, in fact, Jesus reached more than one "possessed" person, and left them "clothed, and in their right mind".

That is not what I meant to imply. I understand that there is deliverance from possession, poor choice of words. My point was to ask whether or not someone can be turned over to their sin by God totally.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

That is not what I meant to imply. I understand that there is deliverance from possession, poor choice of words. My point was to ask whether or not someone can be turned over to their sin by God totally.

Ah, so you're referring to a reprobate mind........in which case, I would have to venture an opinion that "yes" someone could reach a point where they can't be reached..........

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

My only issue with your position is that you seem to imply that "possessed" people are unreachable. This is not backed by scripture, in fact, Jesus reached more than one "possessed" person, and left them "clothed, and in their right mind".

I find that many people in the church system are afraid of people they think may be "possessed". Many consider depressed people of being demonically oppressed. You would be surprised at the number of Christians who will actually shy away from folks with depression.

I've actually had someone tell me the other week that they thought that depression was caused by a spirit. They never thought that there might be a physical cause...that a body can lack certain vitamins, minerals and enzymes essential for proper brain focus and activity.

While this man may or may not be suffering from depression, it is evident that something has and is happening with his thought process. The tattoo on his throat, the child molestation charges...are all symptoms of something gone wrong in his life.

Could he, at some point of time in his life met Christ and turned away from Him? Or has he never met Christ at all? It is possible that one can live in this country with a church on every corner and never meet Christ. Or was he molested himself as a child which caused this bizarre desire to have these type of tattoo markings on his body? Severe mental illness can cause people to desire to mutilate themselves.

[bbyrd009]

I think depression is a spirit;
that may be exacerbated, or even initiated by physical causes.
Many Christians, prolly most, die a "sin unto death;"
while it sounds horrid and contemptible, it is quite common,
I think, and just an aspect of a walk to consider.
I don't think it means one is lost, necessarily.
Great men of Scripture died the sin unto death.

And in my experience, it doesn't need severe mental illness
to self-immolate; that is pretty common too, I guess?

[AreYouReady?]

So do you believe that the person who is depressed is possessed by the spirit?

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

So do you believe that the person who is depressed is possessed by the spirit?

I personally don't.

As you said, depression can be caused by a chemical imbalance, but it can also be caused by feelings of dissatisfaction, hopelessness, unrest, etc.....and I believe people can talk themselve into, or out of depression.....been there, done that.

Many people are in situations that are mentally stressful, and rather than dwelling on it, and getting further and further into that pit, they change their circumstances. Others just give into the hopelessness.

Now, that's not to say that the depression caused by a chemical imbalance can be explained away so easily, sometimes medication is the quickest remedy for a chemical imbalance. Not the BEST remedy, but the quickest.

In many cases, proper diet, exercise, sunshine, etc can help restore the body's chemical levels.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I find that many people in the church system are afraid of people they think may be "possessed". Many consider depressed people of being demonically oppressed. You would be surprised at the number of Christians who will actually shy away from folks with depression.

I've actually had someone tell me the other week that they thought that depression was caused by a spirit. They never thought that there might be a physical cause...that a body can lack certain vitamins, minerals and enzymes essential for proper brain focus and activity.

While this man may or may not be suffering from depression, it is evident that something has and is happening with his thought process. The tattoo on his throat, the child molestation charges...are all symptoms of something gone wrong in his life.

Could he, at some point of time in his life met Christ and turned away from Him? Or has he never met Christ at all? It is possible that one can live in this country with a church on every corner and never meet Christ. Or was he molested himself as a child which caused this bizarre desire to have these type of tattoo markings on his body? Severe mental illness can cause people to desire to mutilate themselves.

Depression? I've always heard reference to spiritual oppression as well. In your view are these the same or different? Yes there is however a difference between oppression/depression and possession.

Possession is somewhat rare and is very extreme actually. Most people that wrestle with demons are generally oppressed/depressed. Now when it comes down to the people who are randomly eating people's faces, murding innocent random people wit no remorse just because, and serial murderers and killers, there's no doubt in my mind we're dealing with possession at best, reprobate at worst and more then likely a reprobate. These "zombie" attacks that have been going on coupled with all the weird random shootings and more weird tattoos going around to me is a sign that paganism, satanism, and witchcraft are on the rise in America at an alarming rate.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Depression? I've always heard reference to spiritual oppression as well. In your view are these the same or different? Yes there is however a difference between oppression/depression and possession.

Possession is somewhat rare and is very extreme actually. Most people that wrestle with demons are generally oppressed/depressed. Now when it comes down to the people who are randomly eating people's faces, murding innocent random people wit no remorse just because, and serial murderers and killers, there's no doubt in my mind we're dealing with possession at best, reprobate at worst and more then likely a reprobate. These "zombie" attacks that have been going on coupled with all the weird random shootings and more weird tattoos going around to me is a sign that paganism, satanism, and witchcraft are on the rise in America at an alarming rate.

Do you always answer your own questions?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

I personally don't.

As you said, depression can be caused by a chemical imbalance, but it can also be caused by feelings of dissatisfaction, hopelessness, unrest, etc.....and I believe people can talk themselve into, or out of depression.....been there, done that.

Many people are in situations that are mentally stressful, and rather than dwelling on it, and getting further and further into that pit, they change their circumstances. Others just give into the hopelessness.

Now, that's not to say that the depression caused by a chemical imbalance can be explained away so easily, sometimes medication is the quickest remedy for a chemical imbalance. Not the BEST remedy, but the quickest.

In many cases, proper diet, exercise, sunshine, etc can help restore the body's chemical levels.

I agree and would like to add rest and relaxation to that list. Many times, for a woman, this is almost impossible if she has a demanding job, home, children, husband and church activities. She has no time to rest when everybody is demanding her attention.

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Depression? I've always heard reference to spiritual oppression as well. In your view are these the same or different? Yes there is however a difference between oppression/depression and possession.

I agree that there is a difference between oppression/depression/possession. The trouble is that there are so many Christians...spirit-filled Christians who do not know the difference between somebody suffering from depression and oppression. A friendly face, lending an ear or kind words and prayer helps someone who is depressed. It brings hope to the suffering person.

As for oppression...I think every child of God experiences that from time to time and should expect it.

To tell a depressed person that they are demonically possessed without attempting to help them is ...just cruel.

Possession is an entirely different animal.

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

Possession is somewhat rare and is very extreme actually. Most people that wrestle with demons are generally oppressed/depressed. Now when it comes down to the people who are randomly eating people's faces, murding innocent random people wit no remorse just because, and serial murderers and killers, there's no doubt in my mind we're dealing with possession at best, reprobate at worst and more then likely a reprobate. These "zombie" attacks that have been going on coupled with all the weird random shootings and more weird tattoos going around to me is a sign that paganism, satanism, and witchcraft are on the rise in America at an alarming rate.

So...are you saying that these people cannot be spiritually helped at all?

I do agree that there are people who advertise their beliefs through the tattoos, but...I've seen people saved after they tattooed all their arms and backs up. It is hard...and much more costly to remove tattoos once in the skin.

Yet, at the same time, I've seen professing Christians get tattoos.

[AreYouReady?]

I don't have a tattoo. Too old for that.