How are/should preachers be paid

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Wow...slow down Titus...not sure why you decided to attack me on this. I have been around on this forum awhile and have seen many discussions come around again and again.

I agree to accountability in finances...so we are on the same page there. To be honest, I have no idea what, if any, money my current pastor makes off of the church...I know he works a secular job. My little bit of experience is that most folks do not know and the pastors salary (if any) is not discussed....I have not seen it discussed in business meetings or otherwise...but like I said...that is just my experience...others here may have different experiences.

Looking back at my post it is much snipey... so sorry!

Just to be clear...I am not asking that anyone reveal a dollar amount, even if they know it... Just whether or not any member even knows how church finances are handled and how a pastor is paid. I am of course using some big chruches as my examples where there is at least a certain percentage of folks who are doing well and money flows pretty freely with the belief that it is going to God's work... Or at least that is how I think most folks see it. Maybe some just want to build the nicest country club around but giving the benefit of the doubt.

I have to admit I have been a little uncomfortable giving upwards of $10K annualy and having to say I HAVE POSITIVELY NO IDEA WHERE THE MONEY GOES to my adult children who have degrees in business and finance... well... And then having pastors that live well beyond anything I could ever hope to afford with lavish vacations, vacation properties, supporting adult children, etc. has made me wonder if there is any accountability at all.

[Titus2woman]

Let me even go a little further. I hear people saying if you don't trust your pastor with your money get out... I didn't and I did. Now I am looking for another church home. Honestly if this secrecy model is how OP churches are handled I am going to take them off my list for possibilities, plain and simple. If it is not the norm I would sure like to hear someone say so.

[TJJJ]

Preachers should be paid according to their contract with the Church.

If they have a contranct then honor the contract.

[houston]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

Preachers should be paid according to their contract with the Church.

If they have a contranct then honor the contract.

Preachers should starve! And BEG for scraps! How arrogant of preachers who sacrifice their lives, money, and time with their families to expect those that they serve to put a few coins in the offering basket!

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

Preachers should starve! And BEG for scraps! How arrogant of preachers who sacrifice their lives, money, and time with their families to expect those that they serve to put a few coins in the offering basket!

Goofball

[houston]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Goofball

What? LOL


I think he appreciates my humor.

[The Lemon]

Titus,

No worries...this thread has been thought provoking. I remember when I was very young and my wife and I struggled from paycheck to paycheck....in those days my father did our taxes. We could not offord to pay some of our bills...but you know I never missed a tithe check. Long and short...my Dad refused to help me financially when I actually had the money to take care of our expenses, but was giving it to the Church. So I know what you mean in light of family and giving to the Church...even more so when there may be questions on how the money is handled.

It has just been my small experience that I have never seen any of my pastor's salaries. I have seen other aspects of the bill paying etc. in business meetings...but not that. I am not sure if my last two pastors even take a salary at all...but maybe they do.

[bbyrd009]

Lots of churches post their complete finances
on the entry wall; Mennonite, etc.
Yours can, too, if they want.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

So I have to ask, is that the financial model at your church?

Our church has a board which makes most of those decisions, and the congregation is informed on all financial matters at an annual meeting. Members are also free to inquire into the books at any time, with the exception of looking at individual giving statements which are kept private.

The only experience I have with pentecostal churches is the one man rules all model. It is my understanding that this man takes at least 1/3 of every dollar given to the church no matter how much money that becomes. In larger or more affluent churches that could be millions. Indeed the pastor of my former UPC church gave a million dollars to the building fund 'out of his own money' when he'd not had another job beside overseeing that church.

I've never heard of the "1/3" number before. That sounds fairly arbitrary to me. MOST of the churches I know of are dealing with the IRS and that alone requires some measure of financial transparency with church members.

The one man model I am familiar with does not stop with the 1/3 either but also allows for that same man to fully control the other 2/3. This church has no benevolent fund, food pantry, clothes closet, etc. The private school supports itself with tuition, the youth pay for their own activities with fund raisers and are even used for other money making enterprises like dipping chocolate strawberries for Valentines day that are sold for the same price as the local gourmet chocolate shops to the tune of thousands of dollars in profits. The biggest seller gets a $50 gift card, all the rest goes to the church. Balloons are sold on Mother's Day with the highest paying family winning a dozen roses and a good parking space for their mother, which usually cost them hundreds of dollars. Even the Ladies Auxiliary gives it's proceeds for bake-sales etc. to the church.

In fact most things seem to be geared to producing more money for the pastor and his family. He is more than a decade past retirement age and no longer serves in any real pastoral role but is simply a figurehead. Yet he keeps the reigns and control of the bank accounts. There is no disclosure that I am aware of, with him even doing the deposits from the offering personally. He has been known to question members if their tithe check goes missing.

So while the membership is following the principle of just leaving it up to the pastor I am not sure it's a good idea. I believe that the true 'robbing' can God come in just being content to give one's money to others and not see that the Kingdom's work is done with it. I don't think that giving money to a church that is not using it for God's purpose is any better than spending it at Walmart.

JMVHO

It varies from church to church, and really if you are interested in attending somewhere, you need to schedule a meeting and ask. I don't believe the UPCI has a standard way of handling this that all ministers must use, although I could be wrong about that. I'm pretty sure it's more of a "recommended" method.

Our pastor and his wife are good stewards of the money they receive, they both work for extra money, they live in a nice house, but it isn't a mansion. The pastor is transparent with the congregation about all finances and that breeds trust. He has also been know to refuse salary increases, which my husband gets very frustrated about, because my husband (who is on the board) is a very generous man and thinks our pastor and his wife should live more comfortably than they do. The current compensation is a modest salary, some bills paid, compensation for trips and a limited bonus if tithing income goes above a certain amount in a month.

I really understand where your coming from, with one exception:

If a congregation feels that its leadership deserves the honor of a large salary because the leadership has proven itself to be trustworthy and deserving, I believe that is between the congregation and the recipient[s]. It isn't for the outside observer to look on and criticize, IMO, unless there is some abuse of money, power or saints that needs to be examined.

I would have NO issue with my pastor receiving enough salary so the neither he nor his wife had to work outside jobs, and in fact I think it's a shame that they need to do that at all. There are some men who perhaps don't work as hard as they should on their fulltime salary, and maybe they don't deserve it. For the pastors who DO work hard and DO deserve it, the congregation should feel good about honoring their labour.

I also do not agree that the pastor's salary should be limited to the median income of the members. Again, it depends on whether someone is worthy of the honor or not.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

Titus,

No worries...this thread has been thought provoking. I remember when I was very young and my wife and I struggled from paycheck to paycheck....in those days my father did our taxes. We could not offord to pay some of our bills...but you know I never missed a tithe check. Long and short...my Dad refused to help me financially when I actually had the money to take care of our expenses, but was giving it to the Church. So I know what you mean in light of family and giving to the Church...even more so when there may be questions on how the money is handled.

It has just been my small experience that I have never seen any of my pastor's salaries. I have seen other aspects of the bill paying etc. in business meetings...but not that. I am not sure if my last two pastors even take a salary at all...but maybe they do.

Our pastor's salary and other compensation is an open part of the regular business meeting, and I always think it is painfully small. I cringe when the number is read. Also, anyone who wants to know can go to the church office and ask.