Restoration after a moral failure

[LooneyLucy]

Sure it is.

[Praxeas]

Paul said

Rom 13:7 Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.

1Th 5:12 We ask you, brothers, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you,

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Sure it is.

No Lucy, it's not. Study your bible.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Whoa, here you go again, reputation???? Jesus made himself of NO reputation.

WE have done that, we respect one over the other, WE try to make sure our reputations are soiled. WE WE WE. It's wrong.

Um, do you care at all about what the Bible says? The BIBLE says that a bishop must have a good reputation, both within and without. I try to take my views from scripture; from where do you form yours?

[LooneyLucy]

Yes, in the Biblical sense of the word "reputation" should be good. However, as I am sure you well know, people "in the church" do not always "judge" a persons reputation correctly. It's merely a matter of their opinion. For example, the man in my life who is my bishop, says he doesn't give a care what anybody "thinks" of him. He is going to say what God wants him to say no matter what "people" think or say.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Yes, in the Biblical sense of the word "reputation" should be good. However, as I am sure you well know, people "in the church" do not always "judge" a persons reputation correctly. It's merely a matter of their opinion. For example, the man in my life who is my bishop, says he doesn't give a care what anybody "thinks" of him. He is going to say what God wants him to say no matter what "people" think or say.

Is a man or woman that cheated on their spouse for 4 years qualifying as having a good reputation?

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

All I'm saying is that people lose TRUST; is that the same as not forgiving? It's understandable for a congregation to want someone they can trust implicitly.

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

The trust issue falls into the grace issue. If a man has shown the fruit of repentance, who are we to say God does not trust such a man.

Hello,

There is a difference between forgiveness and trust: forgiveness is freely given of God; trust must be earned. Paul said,

"Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful." (1 Cor 4:1-2 KJV)

"In this case, moreover, it is required of stewards that one be found trustworthy." (1 Cor 4:2 NASU)

When a leader is in a position of trust and they sin, if they confess their sin, God is quick to forgive and to cleanse (1Jn 1:9). However, faithfulness/trustworthiness is not something which is automatically restored when the transgression is forgiven. Trustworthiness MUST be exemplified through a consistent pattern of behavior. This is why Paul said stewards must be found faithful.

This has everything to do with "integrity": uncompromised moral character. When that character has been compromised, it must be rebuilt from scratch. Can such a leader ever be restored again to a position of trust? Perhaps, if he's demonstrated and exemplified the true fruits of repentence. And those fruits are actions born of integrity (uncompromised moral character) which ultimately earn again trust that was lost.

[AreYouReady?]

Four years is a long time. It is not merely an indiscretion, but a prolonged act that both involved knew exactly what they were doing. Since he resigned when people found out, it kind of makes me wonder if he is sorry that he committed the 4-year act, or if he is sorry that he was found out? And what about her? Why is everybody so focused on the pastor when she shares equal shame? It's not about him supposedly 'knowing better', since in the eyes of God he really is no better than 'her'.

But this man's motive or what he did is neither here nor there in my questioning how the church system treats its fallen.

What I want to know is why can't a man, who has committed adultery be restored into some sort of ministry if he truly is repentant and forgiven by God?

Geesh....I knew a minister who was in prison and admitted from the pulpit raping, robbing and killing other prisoners before he repented and obtained forgiveness from God. This man was given a UPC license.

I understand what Ms B is trying to say about trust. I mean, even if the congregation forgave and retained the minister to be pastor, his indiscretion would never be forgotten. The first time he tries to administer council that somebody else does not agree with, his indiscretion will be thrown into his face for sure. In this case, he would have to leave the area.
I also agree that forgiveness, restoration to God and position are different things.

Which leads me to believe that positions in the church system should be eliminated and that all men who are seriously studious of the Word and have the indwelling Holy Spirit should minister to the people, freely, without payment. The people can still vote righteous men to handle building finances and use the rest for benevolent funds to feed and clothe people in the name of Jesus.

jmho, which usually doesn't mean anything to anybody else.

[LooneyLucy]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Is a man or woman that cheated on their spouse for 4 years qualifying as having a good reputation?

Well? I never see where God changed his opinion of David.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by LooneyLucy

Well? I never see where God changed his opinion of David.

David was a King. We aren't talking about a king. We are talking about Pastors