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  #371  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:53 AM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by Truthseeker View Post
You mean like a sin unto death and a sin not unto death? I think you missed my point, why are people using David to justify a minister keeping a position but ignore Saul losing his for his sins.
It depends on the condition of one's heart, of only which God can see. God said that David was a man after mine (his) own heart. He repented, but he did not get away with his sin. God administered consequences to that sin and it was painful to both David and to God. He feels what we feel, being the righteous God that He is.

Apparently, God saw that Saul would not repent and he not only lost his position, but he lost his life. In this dispensation of grace, that is a very dangerous position to be in.

Some people love their sin more than they love God. Only God knows what is in the person's heart. Man should not be so ready to stone him, but man likewise should not be so ready to reinstate to a position of power over other people lest they consider in their own heart that it is just fine to sin without consequences.

It boils all down to what Ms B is saying about trust. We may still love a Godly love towards that person, but ... can we trust him/her anymore to do what is right in the sight of God?
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  #372  
Old 10-07-2012, 11:25 AM
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by rgcraig View Post
This is just crazy. They should not be the pastor.
Yup. It is something like a spirit of delusion to think otherwise.
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"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"

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"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.

"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.

"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."

Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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  #373  
Old 10-07-2012, 12:19 PM
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

The Bible says God puts a person into a position and God removes people.
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Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #374  
Old 10-07-2012, 12:22 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Having a "king" was never God's way. NEVER. The Israelites wanted a king after Samuel, and they got what they wanted.... but it was NOT God's design.

Jesus Christ came to us in an example of the greatest way that mankind needs to be ruled. Jesus came as a servant.

He came born in a manger, not in a palace.

He rode a donkey, not a Lexus.

He had no place to lay his head, instead of the best home in the church.

He came as a servant in every way possible, and died the worst possible death to die. He set the perfect example for us all, yet .... no one really wants to live or die the way Jesus did.

If anyone aspiring to the ministry would truly look at and consider the life of Christ, perhaps we wouldn't have the problems with the ministry that we see today, not just in Pentecost, but in every denomination.

The ministry are not to live like kings, act like kings or look like kings. They are to be SERVANTS. That is the example Jesus set up for us to see.

Don't believe me?

Read the gospels again and look at the life of Christ, and see how he lived. Show me the fine cars, fancy homes, exotic vacations, expensive apparel and fine food he dined on. Show me that he took up offerings every time he preached...

Show me! Because I can't find it anywhere....

Instead the picture of Christ is one of servanthood. What did Christ do the last night of his life? He served all of his brethren, washed their feet, and broke bread with them as a servant. What a picture he left for us to follow!

If those in ministry would stop, and take a closer look at the man Jesus Christ, who was our perfect example (and stop trying to compare our ministry to kings like David and Saul - imperfect fallen men)... and look instead at what Jesus expected of those who were to follow him...

I truly believe the servant hearts coming forth out of the design Christ gave us, would not be the production of adulterous, fornicating, materialistic minded, power hungry, crowd manipulating people in ministry in most organizations today.

Instead, we would see more Mother Theresa's, and Corie Ten Booms, and Peter Marshall's, and men and women more concerned about showing love one to another instead of building their own kingdom.

It would turn our world upside down, if more people truly chose to follow Christ's example, instead of King David's....
Luke 14:8-11
7And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them,

8When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him;

9And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room.

10But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.

11For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.


If anyone tries to build a kingdom here on this earth, even trying to justify it... saying it is "God's kingdom" .... it will not last. But if you lay up your treasure in heaven, that is building up the kingdom of heaven, which will last forever.

For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased (maybe here on earth or maybe not) and he that humbleth himself SHALL be exalted.

If you truly want to be exalted, and excel in the kingdom of heaven... here's what you have to do.
Luke 12:28-34
29And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

32Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

34For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

35Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;

36And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.

37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
If this message would be the one that young men aspiring to enter the ministry would hear first.... perhaps there would be more careful consideration given in their hearts to what serving Jesus really means. It means that being a servant has the highest reward, in God's eyes.

Not being served, but serving.

It is something every single believer must do in order to be part of the kingdom of Christ, and of the kingdom of heaven. We must have a servant's heart and by our love one for another will all men know we are Christ's disciples. John 13:35

Let us all search our hearts, and see if we measure up to the servant example that Jesus set before us....
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  #375  
Old 10-07-2012, 12:26 PM
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Paul's edict about pastors doesn't apply. It's a cultural custom. Sort of like the hair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 View Post
Yup. It is something like a spirit of delusion to think otherwise.
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #376  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:11 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Pastors are NOT Kings.
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #377  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:16 PM
houston houston is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Paul's edict about pastors doesn't apply. It's a cultural custom. Sort of like the hair.
What?
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  #378  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:17 PM
houston houston is offline
Isaiah 56:4-5


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Pastors are NOT Kings.
Apparently that's not sinking in.
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  #379  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:19 PM
LooneyLucy LooneyLucy is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

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Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
The Bible says God puts a person into a position and God removes people.
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  #380  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:48 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

Hmmm

Act 6:3 Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.

Act 14:23 And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they had believed.


Tit 1:5 This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you--

They picked out men for leadership...and they had a biblical basis for deciding according to Paul an Apostle

Tit 1:6 if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination.
Tit 1:7 For an overseer, as God's steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain,
Tit 1:8 but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.
Tit 1:9 He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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