Money

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

It does not bother me in the least if a pastor takes all the tithes however HE will give an account to GOD...and believe me God keeps good records and He knows HOW we spend our money....

My problem is this sister... I believe that not only will HE give an account to God but so will WE. If we give our money and know, or should have known, that it was not being used to further the Kingdom there is no getting away from our own guilt.

When we can plainly see that the ministers in our churches are living rich, supporting adult children who will not work under the guise of giving them paid positions that someone else would do without pay, building huge edifices, taking lavish vacations, buying vacation properties, wearing designer suits... the list goes on and on... And we are not innocent when we enjoy that huge building and all the programs and send our kids on the youth trip that is really just an extra vacation.... And all the while people in our own communities may not have enough to eat, are not hearing the word of God except when they cruise by a televanglist while changing the channel... While foregin missions have needs...

God will see the whole with every excuse, including 'I gave, someone else was responsible for how my money was used' stripped away.

[KeptByTheWord]

This whole thread is spoken out of the heart of a true servant of Christ, ministering where there are needs. I am so grateful to know that there are true servants of Christ ministering in whatever ways they can to the body of Christ.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

My problem is this sister... I believe that not only will HE give an account to God but so will WE. If we give our money and know, or should have known, that it was not being used to further the Kingdom there is no getting away from our own guilt.

When we can plainly see that the ministers in our churches are living rich, supporting adult children who will not work under the guise of giving them paid positions that someone else would do without pay, building huge edifices, taking lavish vacations, buying vacation properties, wearing designer suits... the list goes on and on... And we are not innocent when we enjoy that huge building and all the programs and send our kids on the youth trip that is really just an extra vacation.... And all the while people in our own communities may not have enough to eat, are not hearing the word of God except when they cruise by a televanglist while changing the channel... While foregin missions have needs...

God will see the whole with every excuse, including 'I gave, someone else was responsible for how my money was used' stripped away.

Truth indeed!

[Sister Alvear]

I don't plan to give where there Is no
need.....
Wonder what God will say to those that have millions when He has little ones that have no bread......we had all better live in the light of eternity....

[Adam]

This thread breaks my heart in unspeakable ways.

[Titus2woman]

Please speak them... I would love to hear.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

[/B]

Where is this found in the bible?

Here's a few of dozens and dozens and dozens.

3Jn 1:2 Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

Pro 3:9 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: 10 So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine.

Ecc 5:19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.

Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, 30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Please speak them... I would love to hear.

It just saddens me that people are starving while I'm sitting here not starving. And, there's not much I can do about it, really. It's just sad.

[Adam]

Also, when enriched preachers say that Mother Teresa, who, for over 45 years, ministered to the poor, sick, orphaned, and dying, would live for eternity in Hell if she never received the Holy Ghost...well, that saddens me, too.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

That is a good question with no doubt many opinions. I will give my opinion

When I was very young maybe 15 or so I read a book about China. The book told of what happened to christian churches in when communist took over and for the most part the churches that depended upon American money to survive closed down because they did not know how to survive on their on. I already felt in my heart that I would be a missionary and decided in my own heart that if I could I would try to plant a native church in Brazil that would support itself.

I did not know how hard that would be at that time but after becoming a missionary that is the route I took and 4 years later I married on the field someone that felt the same.

So briefly this is how we have worked...We started churches with that goal in mind and slowly worked toward it. Today the work is very big yet at least 95 % of the work takes care of themselves...We try to help on new projects and in new areas. For example where we started the work (state of Sao Paulo) we have probably 75 works and they are all self supporting and in turn many of them help support national missionaries that are sent out with the same goal and purpose.

Another state that is now self supporting is the state of Minas Gerias and the state where we live now is almost there.

Many states such as Bahia, Mato Grosso, and Para are self supporting.

We have a national missionary in the state of Ceara that is supported by some of the churches here and Brother Alvear and I were just up there with them not long ago. They are working on becoming self supporting and within a year should reach their goal.

Our son Arlei moved 5 years ago to the lower basin of the Amazon jungle area and we helped him along with the nationals get started and he has built 5 churches along with several preaching points and the churches are self supporting. He is not self supporting yet but should be within the next two years. We helped him buy a little plot of jungle land where he is planting their rice and beans (main food here) someone from America (one of those little ladies I talked about helped him buy a cow) As soon as they get a better water system he feels they too will not have to be helped with outside money. Which is really very little. I personally feel that within 2 years that they will become self supporting and help support other works from there.

The work in Brazil supports a small mission outreach in the country of Paraguay and we help in a small way in the Philippines...The work in the Philippines that we oversee is also now self supporting.

Several of our pastors came to us last year they see our health is failing and they hate for us to have to come to America. They asked us how much money we needed for the church of Brazil to help us out because they want us to die there with them....

Brother Alvear and I hold no office other than a spiritual office of being their mother and father in the Lord.

Right now we are in the states for a couple ladies meeting and a special service in Louisiana. We try to pay our own way as we go along and not be a burden to others.

I PERSONALLY do not believe in American owned churches in foreign countries...but that is just me. I respect those of other opinions but I believe he national church is the Bible way. However I am so aware of the pros and cons on both sides of the fence...

I know missionaries that put rules on the walls of their churches because of the group they belong to and NOT because of a biblical doctrine..so their people will look just like the Americans that support them...well money flows in (sometimes Americans are so dumb and please excuse me for being so plain) but as soon as the money is gone...the little so called doctrines also go out the door because they were just doing certain things for American money....

People have to become converted in Christ Jesus not some man made organization...The cross is denial of the flesh and followering Jesus should not be for money or material gain.

I know missionaries that are rich!

Years ago when we had a house full of children and things were very tight...one day my phone rang and it was a missionary that called me to tell me they were leaving Brazil. We talked a little while and at the end of our conversation she said to me, Sister Janice I just wanted to call you and tell you, I could not live like you all do without knowing from one day to the next what we will eat and how much money that will come in but just want you to know you all are a real example of Bible missionaries...
Wow...that meant a lot to me...

I think a real missionary"s goal is to work themselves out of a job! Since the word missionary is not in the Bible I really think a missionary is a planter...However there are many ways to plant...some do like we do and work making Jesus known...then moving on to another village, another city and so forth...others work all their lives translating the Bible in Indian languages and helping wherever needed.

Well...it is early and I think I have rambled....lol...feel free to ask me any questions conceding how we work or anything like that. I will do my best to answer...Over the years we have taught classes that has nothing to do with the Bible but yet in another way has a lot to do with the Bible...Classes such as soap making, planting gardens, music, English, bread making and all kinds of things...we have bought sewing machines for different areas...helped our son buy brick molds to make bricks, sent some through collage to help them have a way of supporting themselves...just on and on....

Great stories of faith Sis Alvear and you should be commended for your dedication to your calling. I'm sure it's been a labor of love for you and your family and may the Lord bless you for it.

I guess what I'm seeing though is resulting in questioning the need to continue sending missionaries to countries such as Africa, South America and Mexico for, in some cases, hundreds of years now. I realize that the common people (and I don't say that disparagingly) in those areas are most likely living in poverty that we here in America can only imagine, not seeing it for ourselves. But the gospel should change that. The gospel is more than preaching so that individuals will miss hell, the gospel should also prosper and improve an individual's life. It should give hope of a better life, and not just a hope but a reality. After hundreds of years of preaching by various religious sects, it seems to me that the gospel isn't raising the standard of living for those who are placing their faith in Jesus Christ for whatever reason.