Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[bishoph]

In MOST districts of the UPCI, ALL licensed ministers pay all or a percentage of their "ministerial tithe" (tithe off of ministry income)to the district. Tithe from personal income (i.e. a job, business, etc) is paid to their local assembly or wherever they feel to pay it. I think it would be safe to say that most districts have a "minimum" such as 50% of you ministerial tithe or $50 which ever is more. I do know of at least one district that has a flat district "dues" rather than a tithing structure.

[Cindy]

So they pay to preach and get paid to preach?

[tv1a]

Ohio district charged our pastor $3oo a month when we were with them. You couldn't get them to call you unless they didn't get their cut.

[BeenThinkin]

Originally Posted by Cindy

So they pay to preach and get paid to preach?

Cindy, you forgot to say, "Good grief!"

Been Thinkin

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Enigmatically Ambiguous

This issue goes beyond the acts of immorality. The issue is with individuals who aggressively project themsleves as defenders of the faith, defenders of the movement, defenders of holiness, crusaders of Apostolic Identity (I've been told that the term "Apostolic Identity" was coined in Memphis), who have politicked, and crucified people, publicly humiliated people, behind the scenes defamed people's character, manipulated to get their way at District functions, at General Conferences, at Youth Congresses. How someone would have the gall to be mean-spirited, unmerciful, controlling and intimidating all the while garnishing the admiration of his local church as a hero, earning the respect of the org to the degree to be an international speaker, camp meeting preacher, conferences, men's retreats, singles conferences and other large gatherings---being appointed to powerful commissions and committees, and having access to high elected officials who would listen to and even implement his ideas---to be so with haughtiness and arrogance, and in private doing the things that were done is one of the most amazing examples of hypocrisy I've witnessed in my 60+ years. And not one Spirit-filled leader or friend in ministry discern for a second something seriously wrong with the fruit is perplexing.

I recognized hypocrisy and tried to warn people of it, but only to the degree that his expectation that people live according to the manual wasn't reflected in his own personal life (i.e. attending pro ball games, watching television, allowances for looser living on vacations and other innocuous violations). It was hypocrisy, yes, but I had no clue to how deep it ran.

It's not simply a symptom of conservative vs. liberal ideology. The problem is sin in the flesh. And when you have any individual with lots and lots of power and influence, with very little accountability, and an unwillingness to ever be challenged with questions, or audits or someone who might disagree or see things differently---it's a set up for a fall. And when the fruit of the ministry below the surface of shouting services and large crowds and big offerings and popularity is a track record of bullying, intimidation, back door politics and ruthlessness...someone with even a little bit of Holy Spirit should be able to look at that and say, "There is something wrong with this picture."

Do I believe he made some people in positions of power uncomfortable? Not only do I believe it, I know it. I had one on one conversations with elected officials who didn't like his style off the record, but no one would say anything to him. Why? Big offerings to the org, powerful friends and relationships, the good ole boys network...keeps a lot of people quiet. It just makes one wonder if it is symptomatic of political systems which the UPCI has as an underlying foundation. Maybe the NT model of men approved of God, spiritual consensus and appointment rather than elections, church size, offering amounts and democratic structure would serve the movement better. I don't know thatbi see much difference between Washington DC and Hazelwood sometimes.

What are you talking about?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Cindy

So they pay to preach and get paid to preach?

Sure beats starving.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Cindy, you forgot to say, "Good grief!"

Been Thinkin

Good Grief

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Good Grief

[ttpaba]

Originally Posted by Enigmatically Ambiguous

This issue goes beyond the acts of immorality. The issue is with individuals who aggressively project themsleves as defenders of the faith, defenders of the movement, defenders of holiness, crusaders of Apostolic Identity (I've been told that the term "Apostolic Identity" was coined in Memphis), who have politicked, and crucified people, publicly humiliated people, behind the scenes defamed people's character, manipulated to get their way at District functions, at General Conferences, at Youth Congresses. How someone would have the gall to be mean-spirited, unmerciful, controlling and intimidating all the while garnishing the admiration of his local church as a hero, earning the respect of the org to the degree to be an international speaker, camp meeting preacher, conferences, men's retreats, singles conferences and other large gatherings---being appointed to powerful commissions and committees, and having access to high elected officials who would listen to and even implement his ideas---to be so with haughtiness and arrogance, and in private doing the things that were done is one of the most amazing examples of hypocrisy I've witnessed in my 60+ years. And not one Spirit-filled leader or friend in ministry discern for a second something seriously wrong with the fruit is perplexing.

I recognized hypocrisy and tried to warn people of it, but only to the degree that his expectation that people live according to the manual wasn't reflected in his own personal life (i.e. attending pro ball games, watching television, allowances for looser living on vacations and other innocuous violations). It was hypocrisy, yes, but I had no clue to how deep it ran.

It's not simply a symptom of conservative vs. liberal ideology. The problem is sin in the flesh. And when you have any individual with lots and lots of power and influence, with very little accountability, and an unwillingness to ever be challenged with questions, or audits or someone who might disagree or see things differently---it's a set up for a fall. And when the fruit of the ministry below the surface of shouting services and large crowds and big offerings and popularity is a track record of bullying, intimidation, back door politics and ruthlessness...someone with even a little bit of Holy Spirit should be able to look at that and say, "There is something wrong with this picture."

Do I believe he made some people in positions of power uncomfortable? Not only do I believe it, I know it. I had one on one conversations with elected officials who didn't like his style off the record, but no one would say anything to him. Why? Big offerings to the org, powerful friends and relationships, the good ole boys network...keeps a lot of people quiet. It just makes one wonder if it is symptomatic of political systems which the UPCI has as an underlying foundation. Maybe the NT model of men approved of God, spiritual consensus and appointment rather than elections, church size, offering amounts and democratic structure would serve the movement better. I don't know thatbi see much difference between Washington DC and Hazelwood sometimes.

Are you saying you know these things to be true of TB? You seem to have quite a bit of inside info! Care to share details? What exactly did he do?

[Bwal]

I'm feel so hurt that other "Apostolics" would talk about this in a public forum on the Internet. My church needs your prayers; not your criticisms of a man I love very much even though he made a bad mistake.