continued from previous post
Second
1 Timothy 2:11-12 Paul speaks about women and says they are not to teach or usurp authority over the man. In my opinion, “the man” here refers to a husband and Paul is saying that women should not be rebellious or teach against what their husbands are teaching. In
Ephesians 5:21-33 and
1 Corinthians 11:1-3 Paul speaks of “order” in the home. The verses in Ephesians have led to all kinds of extremes, even abuse, but notice in verse 21 it says that husbands and wives are to submit to one another. Also, Paul is very clear that a man should love his wife as much as he loves himself and in the same way that Christ loves His Bride, the Church. When a husband meets those requirements, a wife can “submit” because he will not expect or demand anything of her that he would not expect or demand of himself.
Third
1 Corinthians 14:34-40 is another passage used to “prove” that women cannot minister. I think this passage has been misunderstood and misapplied over the years. Here is how it reads in the KJV:
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
A couple of thoughts about this.
1.This is a quote from “the Law” but which law?
It is not what we call “the Law” or “The Law of Moses” or “The Old Testament” because those words about being silent in the congregation, not being permitted to speak, being under obedience, and asking their husband at home are not found there.
Under the Law or under the Old Testament
--Miriam (Moses’ sister) was considered a prophetess and leader ref
Micah 6:4 and
Exodus 15:20-21) This was around 1445 BC
--the daughters of Zelophehad in
Numbers 27:1-11 stood in the door of the Tabernacle and petitioned Moses for property rights. They were not silenced but the inheritance laws were changed beause of them.
--Deborah was a prophet and judge (spiritual and civil ruler sorta like a pastor) ref
Judges 4:4-5. This was around 1316 to 1237 BC
--There is a woman called a “wise woman” sort of like a chief or elder in the city of Abel that negotiated with an Israeli general and saved her city. This was about 1000 BC ref
2 Samuel 20:14-24
--Isaiah prophesied under a couple of different kings about 700 years before the birth of Christ. He calls his wife a prophetess in
Isaiah 8:3
--During the reign of Josiah (640-609 BC) the leadership of the country went to a prophetess by the name of Huldah to hear the word of the Lord. This is in
2 Kings 22
--Noadiah is called a prophetess in
Nehemiah 6:14. This is around 445 BC
--Then Elisabeth, mother of John the Baptist, prophesied when Mary came to her and told her that she was pregnant (
Luke 1:39-45)
--And Anna prophesied over the baby Jesus and to the people assembled in the temple in
Luke 2:36-38
So, the idea of a woman leading or prophesying is found in our Old Testament
2. What “law” is Paul referenciing in
1 Corinthians 14:34-40 if it was not our Old Testament? It is my opinion that he was quoting back something to the Corinthians that they had previously quoted to him. Our book of 1 Corinthians may actually be made up of 2 letters that Paul wrote to the church in Corinth. The usual date for 1 Corinthians is considered to be autumn AD 55 while Paul was in Macedonia as recorded in
Acts 19:22. If you go through the book you will notice that some of it is in response to a letter he had received from them and he quotes them. reference 6:13 for a quote from them and 7:1; 8:1; 9:3; 12:1 and 16:1 for what seem to be answers to some of their questions. In my opinion 14:34-35 had been quoted to Paul by someone more than one in the church and he answers them in verses 36-40. First he quotes what they had said about women being silent, under obedience, asking their husband at home and it being a shame to speak in the church. Some thoughts like this can be found in oral tradition and quotes from Rabbis, stuff like “A woman is not to come forward to read” and “whoever teaches his daughter the Torah is like one who teaches her obscenities,” and “Rather should the words of the Torah be burned than entrusted to a woman.” After Paul quotes this stuff, his next word in verse 36 is “What?” Then he continues with “are you the ones giving out the Word or am I?” (paraphrase of the latter part of verse 36. He then goes on to exert his Apostolic authority and says, “If any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord” (verse 36). In verse 38 he says, “But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.” He finishes out that subject with verses 39 and 40 by encouraging them all (both men and women) to covet (stongly desire) to prophesy and that speaking with tongues should not be forbidden either. And finisthes up by saying, “Let all things be done decently and in order.” The order he had given was that both men and women could publicly speak with tongues but it should be limited to only two or three and what was said should be interpreted so people knew what was being said and that the prophets should also take turns speaking. I assume the word prophet here to be inclusive of both men and women.
So, this has gotten lengthy but this is the way I see the subject of women preachers. There have been many women who have evangelized, served as missionaries, and who have planted and pastored churches. Our Apostolic/Pentecostal history has many of them and I feel it is wrong to put them down, or relegate them to second place or to try to silence them.
The thoughts that I have expressed above are based on a teaching I heard by the late Gordon Magee on a reel to reel tape recorder back in 1958. I made some notes on it but those are long gone. I actually taught a Sunday School lesson on the subject back in the late 1950’s at Bro. Curts’ church when they were located in Camp Washington. This was probably around the time Kevin was born and he will be 51 this month.
Like I said, the subject of women preachers or “lady preachers” as Bro. Magee called them can be controversial and discussions about it can generate more heat than light. I remember being in a “fellowship” meeting in the late 1950’s or early 1960’s where the subject came up and some of the pastors stormed out of the building in anger after some words passed back and forth among some of the preachers there. So it wound up being more of a “battleship” meeting than a “fellowship” meeting. If I remember correctly this was at a church downtown at 1333 Main Steet called “The Church of God Our Savior.” I preached there some time after that (around when Keith was born in 1962) at a youth meeting (I used to be a youth many years ago). That pastor was Bishop B.D. Powell and he has been dead for many years and the stiorefront church there has been gone for a long time. I can think of 4 store front churches in downtown Cincinnati in that Over the Rhine area where I’ve preached --34 Findlay Street, 70 East McMickken, 1333 Main, and one on Race Street-- that aren’t around any more.
When I went to Bible School (I only went one year to ABI in St. Paul, MN and that was 1956/1957) Bro. Norris taught that the passages in
1 Timothy 2 and
1 Corinthians 14 only referred to that particular time and culture when the synagogues had separate sections for the men and women. So, if a woman wanted to ask her husband something she would have to holler from one section of the building to another. He also applied it to “business meetings” and taught (if I remember correctly) that women should not participate in business meetings. He did believe in women preachers and when I first went to St. Paul he had Sis. Willie Johnson there to hold a revival. I’ll send you somehting about her in a separate email.
Say “Hi” to G.... for me. I hope she and you and your whole gang have a good Christmas and that 2012 is better than 2011.
Jim Ellis
Not this Assembly of God boy 
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