Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns - Page 129

Peacemaker · #**1281** 11-19-2012, 11:25 AM

CC1, I definitely am not trying to be a name caller. I apologize for leaving that impression. I believe the standards that most would be associated with the UPC, generally. You could probably stereotype me and get 90% or so correct. However, if a church actually believes that, it has no choice but to not use people who attend but do not follow those same beliefs. That same principle should be applied to any church. Whatever a church's beliefs are, surely a person violating those would not be allowed on the platform or even be an usher if they are in violation of a belief of that congregation. IF that is not held, that church is hyprocritical for following those beliefs. So to say that a church has two levels of saints misrepresents the intention of the leadership of that church. If the church preaches a certain belief, and doesn't actually hold to it, they are hypocritical. Obviously we aren't on the same page in some areas, but that point stands.

Peacemaker · #**1282** 11-19-2012, 11:33 AM

There is no doubt that the only thing that brings a soul harvest is sowing seed to lost people. There is no doubt that what brings a revival in spiritual fervour is repentance, fasting, and prayer. The real challenge for ALL of us is a return to the application of the Word of God to our lives first. His word is exalted above all His name. Jesus said "He that hears and does these words of mine...".

tv1a · #**1283** 11-19-2012, 12:09 PM

Have you notice the camera work? Tight camera shots hiding the vast empty spaces. The people look like zombies. The musicians are tight, but the singers sing with the emotion of a Vulcan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

Exactly. Just look at that pathetic 300 or so out of 6000 that still faithfully attend Swaggart's church in Baton Rouge, La.

Mindless robots.

Cindy · #**1284** 11-19-2012, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originalist

And it is a lonely feeling indeed when you are one of the few who sees through this sham and senses the grief of the Holy Ghost over the matter. It is not Biblical to "believe God for revival" to begin with, or to expect mobs of sinners to just show up. We are commanded to GO and preach the gospel. We are called, as Paul said, to "persuade men" and lovingly call them to repentance. I'll call it a "revival" when I see significant numbers of Christians obeying this command without waiting to be told what to do by their pastors. Sadly, many pastors would try to quench such a revival because it would make them look bad for not obeying the command themselves.

Originalist · #**1285** 11-19-2012, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tv1a

Have you notice the camera work? Tight camera shots hiding the vast empty spaces. The people look like zombies. The musicians are tight, but the singers sing with the emotion of a Vulcan.

Oh yeah. Big black curtains hiding thousands of empty seats.

CC1 · #**1286** 11-19-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

CC1, I definitely am not trying to be a name caller. I apologize for leaving that impression. I believe the standards that most would be associated with the UPC, generally. You could probably stereotype me and get 90% or so correct. However, if a church actually believes that, it has no choice but to not use people who attend but do not follow those same beliefs. That same principle should be applied to any church. Whatever a church's beliefs are, surely a person violating those would not be allowed on the platform or even be an usher if they are in violation of a belief of that congregation. IF that is not held, that church is hyprocritical for following those beliefs. So to say that a church has two levels of saints misrepresents the intention of the leadership of that church. If the church preaches a certain belief, and doesn't actually hold to it, they are hypocritical. Obviously we aren't on the same page in some areas, but that point stands.

If you go back and look at my post I did not judge the churches that have the two tier saints. It was merely an observation. Obviously it is not a practice I agree with because I don't agree with the standards in the first place but I did not condemn it.

On the one hand it seems like it is progress as they at least fellowship the 2nd tier saints and don't kick them out like they did when people would not conform when I was growing up UPC. On the other hand it is sad to see so many great people of God who are not used in a church because they don't meet a man made extra biblical dress code.

I am still trying to figure how I said anything in that post that warranted you thinking I should not be an admin!

Peacemaker · #**1287** 11-19-2012, 07:17 PM

I may misunderstand the purpose of Admin.
However, Nothing in my post invited a generalization about two tiers of saints, standards, etc. My point was that, that church is far from a group of lemmings, as anyone who goes through the UPC would know. After saying that, I get treated to your observations about UPC that frankly were off topic.

CC1 · #**1288** 11-19-2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

I may misunderstand the purpose of Admin.
However, Nothing in my post invited a generalization about two tiers of saints, standards, etc. My point was that, that church is far from a group of lemmings, as anyone who goes through the UPC would know. After saying that, I get treated to your observations about UPC that frankly were off topic.

So I am clear I certainly agree that the vast majority of saints in that church or most are not "lemmings". However I do contend that the closed culture and high reverence for pastors / preachers makes old time Pentecost subject to a significant minority of saints who will follow a longtime revered pastor to a new work in spite of whatever circumstances lead him there.

Peacemaker · #**1289** 11-19-2012, 08:19 PM

CC1 that's the meat of where we disagree. Viewing something you disagree with as a closed culture is an opinion that anyone believing in a similar fashion will hold. I contest the view that because we have views that are different from yours does not make us a closed culture. Clearly even in a supposedly open culture like Swaggarts AG church, there were many blind loyalists. Having a belief in our type of standards does not mean that we are a closed culture or more likely to be blindly loyal. Those are simply unrelated. What SHOULD be the case is that neither of us or "our groups" would be willing to follow failed leadership, because of a deep desire for righteousness in our spirits.

CC1 · #**1290** 11-19-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peacemaker

CC1 that's the meat of where we disagree. Viewing something you disagree with as a closed culture is an opinion that anyone believing in a similar fashion will hold. I contest the view that because we have views that are different from yours does not make us a closed culture. Clearly even in a supposedly open culture like Swaggarts AG church, there were many blind loyalists. Having a belief in our type of standards does not mean that we are a closed culture or more likely to be blindly loyal. Those are simply unrelated. What SHOULD be the case is that neither of us or "our groups" would be willing to follow failed leadership, because of a deep desire for righteousness in our spirits.

I find it hard to believe that anybody would argue that old time Pentecost / UPC is not a closed religious culture. The emphasis is on their dinstinctives both doctrinal and dress code. They do not consider those who believe differently to be Christian brothers or sisters and most do not even think they can learn anything from reading a book or hearing a sermon from someone outside of their specific belief system. If that is not a closed culture I don't know what is.