A thought on tithing

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Are we having fun yet????????????????


If ignorance is bliss I know some real happy people.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Tithing (giving a 10th of one's income) is a Catholic doctrine from the Middle Ages. The biblical tithe was connected to the land of Israel (herds and crops). It was agrarian in nature. To teach that one must tithe a tenth of their income or go to Hell does violence to the Gospel and is essentially extortion.

Crops and herds in an agrarian was the currency. Do you get paid with crops and animals? You are paid with money that enables you to purchase food. Tithe is 10% of your increase, not income. I haven't read here anyone who says that if you don't tithe you go to hell. There are preachers who do and I don't agree with that.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Crops and herds in an agrarian was the currency. Do you get paid with crops and animals? You are paid with money that enables you to purchase food. Tithe is 10% of your increase, not income. I haven't read here anyone who says that if you don't tithe you go to hell. There are preachers who do and I don't agree with that.

Now this is very true.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

My friend you can't have it both ways. Either judgment-mercy-faith are not part of the NT church or tithing is part of the NT church. Jesus said THESE ye ought to have done...judgment-mercy-faith and NOT left the others UNDONE. No tithing then no judgment-mercy-faith. Your dilema is evident.

Jesus said a wise man would hear his sayings and DO them. Mt.7:24
Jesus SAID ye ought to pay tithes,,,,,,,,,,,,Mt.23:23 are you wise or foolish?

Brother Epley, you ought to read your own questions. you asked me :

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

So judgment-mercy-faith are not part of the NT economy?

Now you change your question and accuse me of saying judgment, mercy and faith are not a part of the NT church. Shame on you for trying to put trick questions out there.

You did ask according to what the tithe really is...produce, spices, animals food based tangible items and I have answered you with more economic issues in mind. The spices the pharisees tithed were more of an economic issue as they went to the levite priest, who was then supposed to tithe 10% of that to the storehouse to feed the widow, orphans and strangers.

I answered you according to your question. Judgment, mercy and faith are not part of today's economy. The corporate mind cares little for judgment, mercy and faith. Corporations (which are considered to be persons under US law) care only about consuming, growth and profit. Corporations have no mind, mercy, faith or judgment except to grow and puff up like yeast, chomping up every bit of nourishment (money) it can find to exist.

Judgment (righteous judgment), mercy and faith are not even the NT church's economy. Although I fail to see what any economic conditions have to do with Christ's message anyway. I haven't seen an OP pastor yet that uses judgment, mercy and faith when dealing with the tithe issue. (I am not putting all you pastors in this box. I'm only discussing my experience with the pastors I have sat under) If you preached some of the stuff I've heard, then you are the one way off base.

If preachers (and some do) tell folks who are down economically (financially) to tithe anyway if they don't have enough money to pay their rent, then the one who gains is the preacher. If that type of preaching is meant to build faith, then it is a sorry way to use money to build faith in Christ. It shows what type of heart the preacher has. James 2:13-17 is a more correct way to build faith in NT times.

And if a preacher has to preach tithe as a salvational issue or even as a membership in the local body issue, then I would say that they are fairly weak in their faith themselves.

God is the source of my supply in this life. I don't have to tell somebody that if they don't give me a percentage of the fruits of their labor that they are doomed. I look to my Savior to supply my needs. And I feel the Holy Spirit nudging me to give to somebody when they are down. Do you really want people to see Christ in that sort of light of tithe preaching? That is almost on the same concept of the Catholic indulgence.

So again, when Jesus told the pharisee that these things he ought to have done, He was still living under the OT tithing law. And yes, judgment, mercy and faith should have been in the heart of the pharisee when he tithed his spices to the levites. But it wasn't.

So to answer your question... judgment, mercy and faith is not a part of any economy. It is a matter of the heart and every person should have righteous judgment, be full of mercy and be full of faith in God and God's ability to take care of yours and mine needs in this physical life. If one puts faith in that he/she has tithed, therefore God is obligated to make sure I eat and have clothes and shelter, then something is quite amiss.

God cannot be mocked by smugness of some action people take, then tell God I did this or that for you.

God blesses us according to the condition of our heart.

If I took 20% of my income and gave it to the poor family that the local church has forgotten, some of you tithe receivers would still tell me I am going to hell because YOU didn't get it.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

My friend you can't have it both ways. Either judgment-mercy-faith are not part of the NT church or tithing is part of the NT church. Jesus said THESE ye ought to have done...judgment-mercy-faith and NOT left the others UNDONE. No tithing then no judgment-mercy-faith. Your dilema is evident.

Jesus said a wise man would hear his sayings and DO them. Mt.7:24
Jesus SAID ye ought to pay tithes,,,,,,,,,,,,Mt.23:23 are you wise or foolish?

Open and shut case.

Folks who resist generosity will fight this however. I believe it is extreme to say people go to hell for not tithing, I believe it's extreme to say it's not a NT principle. Those that argue hard against it I guarantee you aren't guilty of giving 10% or more away to any cause. The OT was about the law. The NT os about the heart. Where a man's treasure is there his heart will be. Arguing that we are all ministers (which I agree with) means that the tithe should not pay the pastor and staff and other employees is ridiculous.

Again there abuses for sure, but it doesn't negate the practice.

[AreYouReady?]

And your referring to me as an armchair theologian is rather unbecoming of a preacher. It suggests that you are way up there and I am way below you.

I never claim to be a 'theologian'. I can read. I can think and reason out what I read. The Holy Spirit teaches me from what I read...not man.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

You can't argue on facts, so you attack.

The Matthew 23 argument that Elder E makes seems pretty clear cut. Jesus says you should tithe just as you should exercise mercy and judgment. And the argument that "this was still under the OT law" is the same argument used against using the Gospels for scriptures on salvation. You can't say that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are valid for salvation scriptures but not for NT instruction on lifestyle and Christian living.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

The Matthew 23 argument that Elder E makes seems pretty clear cut. Jesus says you should tithe just as you should exercise mercy and judgment. And the argument that "this was still under the OT law" is the same argument used against using the Gospels for scriptures on salvation. You can't say that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are valid for salvation scriptures but not for NT instruction on lifestyle and Christian living.

Well Brother Deacon some do teach that Jesus was confused about the plan salvation that He paid for and that Gospels are not valid for salvation and that one certain scripture in the Book of Acts is the Gospel according to Pope Peter.
Oh yea I am a tither!

[seekerman]

If Jesus came today He'd not recognize what folks call His 'church'. Tens of thousands of buildings promoted as 'church' sitting dark, dead and empty 99% of the time with hirelings accepting salaries and tithes to support this building-based Romanist religious system. Take the pay away from the hirelings and see how many will serve because of their alleged 'calling'.

Almost nothing remains which follows the pattern of the New Testament church either in organization or power. Simply look around you.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Yes Paul does mention tithing my friend gave you that. Y'all accused Abraham and Jacob of being Catholics.

We 'folk theologians' understand(as dumb as we are) they were not Catholics.

See Bible ignorance such as is shared here might make folks realize the preacher might be worth his money.

Now this brilliant student of theology has just told you everything written in Mt-Jn is not binding on the church today.

If you have judgment-mercy-faith in the church today then you must having tithing it is in the SAME verse spoken by the same man to the same people.

No, Brother Epley, that is just wrong. The fact is that you took Aquila's post:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Tithing (giving a 10th of one's income) is a Catholic doctrine from the Middle Ages. The biblical tithe was connected to the land of Israel (herds and crops). It was agrarian in nature. To teach that one must tithe a tenth of their income or go to Hell does violence to the Gospel and is essentially extortion.

And tried to make a joke out of it by saying this:

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Abraham and Jacob were Catholics you learn something everyday here? Then I guess Jesus was also a Catholic because He said to pay tithes?

In light of this, YOU were the one who put the catholic label on Abraham and Jacob. Then tried to put the blame on the rest of us who do not accept your interpretation of the tithe.


You are clever and tricky.


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