A thought on tithing

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by tv1a

AYR gets pretty touchy when you put facts into the conversation.

Well they don't know me nor my style and it was not my intention to offend them. However pressure can make folks touchy and I imagine them folks trying to discect Mt. 23:23 and make Abraham and Jacob Catholics are feeling the pressure.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by tv1a

AYR gets pretty touchy when you put facts into the conversation.

And this is where you are wrong. I did not get touchy at 'facts'. There are no facts in calling people unjustified names. I get touchy only when people like you call others trailer trash or in this case armchair theologians. You don't know me enough to fling trashy names my way. It really is quite unbecoming of people who claim to be pastors or teachers and cannot bridle their mouths and refrain from calling other people names.

You are the type of person I would never sit under or recommend anybody else to sit under you.

[shag]

Wonder how exactly the Gentiles were taught to give a minimum of 10% of their income. I mean seeing as how it's not explained in scripture, I wonder if they asked any questions or maybe said things like "Steven got stoned to death for debunking the holy house of God theology, along with its levital priesthood, and now instead of just all the Jewish herdsman and crop raisers giving a tenth of their increase with a year off every 7 years, to the priests, fatherless, widows, and a little partying, now we need all of everybody else like the carpenters, publicans, tent makers, gold smiths, scribes, jailers, merchants, cooks whether youre poor as dirt or not, to begin to give a minimum of 10% of their income to their new pastor, and he will distribute it however God leads him." I mean since it isn't taught who exactly now gets 10% of everybody's elses money all of a sudden, we will just let the pastor decide..."


Nobody is arguing the fact we are all to strive to give as unto the Lord in everything including finance,doing "unto the least of these", but the argument here is giving out of a required minimal % not ever explained in scripture to the church in the NT

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I did not mean to offend you many of these folks have posted with me for years and they know I am picking. I apologize.

I accept your apology Brother Epley. I think more highly of you because of your humbleness to apologize for something that you did not intend to happen.

[shag]

Tv1 your sig on legalism could stand to be reworded .

[DaveC519]

Hello Nitehawk013,

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

YOu want to mention logical fallacies and other things in order to pass yourself off as intellectually superior, but then you post this sadly interpretted tripe?

Or... it could simply be my belief that inserting logical fallacies into a discussion can actually inhibit genuine dialogue. I prefer to focus on the discussion, not on denigrating each other. Let's give it a try.

Yeah..lets tithe according to Gen 4. I'll go to my neighbors house, make war with him, kill him and take his stuff and then give 10% of that stuff to a priest.

Or let's do it according to Jacob. I'll promise that if/when God gives me a huge financial blessing I will give 10% back. Then I will run for 21 years and never mention whether I actually ever did give it or not.

Levitical tithing, third year tithing, etc...they were ALL agrarian in nature. The ONLY time money is mentioned at all in relation to the tithe the entire OT is when the Israelites are told that if they had to travel far to give, then they should exchange it for money, carry the money to the temple city, then buy whatever THEY WANT and eat it, NOT give it at all.

All of this might be applicable if Paul had been arguing for a continuation of the Levitical tithing system itself. But he wasn't. He was arguing for NT ministerial support based on the underlying principle of how the Levitical priesthood was supported: a tithe.

I think you are smart enough to see the OT examples of tithing aren't at all compatable with the "tithing" Pastors demand today. Therefore you have made up this imaginary NT "tithe" according to your interpretation of Pauls VERY vague words. Paul not once uses the word tithe. You are creating this fictional NT tithe based on nothing more than the fact that Paul seems to allude to the OT tithe. And because you like the doctrine you turn a blind eye to the completely atrocious hermeneutics of doing such a thing.

My own personal feelings regarding a NT doctrine are irrelevant. Paul was quite clear in his assertion, and he spends 14 verses building his case, which hardly amounts to a vague reference.

Modern day tithing is theological extortion plain and simple. It is an abuse of the trust that saints put in us as leaders. Telling people they will be damned if they don't give, or will be cursed with a curse, even if you try the "I just preach the book. God will judge them" nonsense is extorting from them because they probably trust the "man of god". If you really belive it is a matter of salvation or that they will be cursed and lose everything, don't be a coward and tell them straight up instead of this "Jesus will judge them and sort them out" attempt at not sounding like a Pharisee condemning people over money.

While it may be true that there are pastors out there who employ these type of scare tactics, I am not one of them. I believe in letting the Holy Ghost lead hearts. I believe in presenting the Scripture in a manner which is "easily intreated" (Ja 3:17). People will make up their own minds.

To the tithe supporter, somehow money and the curse of nto tithing are more powerful than the cross and the blood of Christ. That is far more sad than the fact that some people don't give 10% to their church.

Then I must be an exception to your rule. I firmly believe Paul was referring to a tithe in 1 Cor 9, but I don't present it to others as a heaven or hell issue, nor do I hold this doctrine above the blood and cross of Christ.

[Truthseeker]

I'm a son of the father he doesn't tax me.

[tv1a]

No one said you were trailer park trash. I said trailer park trash armchair theologians have no business talking about how preachers should live and giving spiritual advise like they have it all together. If you took offense, it's your fault. I don't apologize if the legalistic spirit was offended.

Christ dealt with legalists different than he did with the multitudes. Christ didn't sugarcoat his words with the religious people. Christ exposed the hypocrisy of the religious infrastructure with strong offensive language. Christ approach to the masses was different. The Sermon on the Mount and The Beatitudes were a softer approach for the masses.

Paul's approach to the legalism was intense. Paul said the religious structure trying to invade the church in Galatia was witchcraft. Anyone who prefers encouraging gossip in a volatile situation needs reminded what the Bible says about gossip.

People who claim to be mature christians but encourage gossip should be held to a higher standard.

I understand why you wouldn't want to be mentored by me. I don't have time to babysit a legalistic spirit. Legalism is a spirit of death. Death is not a welcomed guest in my group. The people God has blessed me to mentor have seen physical healings, miracles, restorations. The people I mentor are taught how to get results. You can't train a legalist Biblical concepts, and you definitely can't train the trailer park trash webcam prophets to walk in the fullness of Christ. They already know everything about the Bible.

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

And this is where you are wrong. I did not get touchy at 'facts'. There are no facts in calling people unjustified names. I get touchy only when people like you call others trailer trash or in this case armchair theologians. You don't know me enough to fling trashy names my way. It really is quite unbecoming of people who claim to be pastors or teachers and cannot bridle their mouths and refrain from calling other people names.

You are the type of person I would never sit under or recommend anybody else to sit under you.

[tv1a]

AFF only gives you so many characters in the signature line. My definition of legalism is to the point, and memorable.

Originally Posted by shag

Tv1 your sig on legalism could stand to be reworded .

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by tv1a

No one said you were trailer park trash. I said trailer park trash armchair theologians have no business talking about how preachers should live and giving spiritual advise like they have it all together. If you took offense, it's your fault. I don't apologize if the legalistic spirit was offended.

Christ dealt with legalists different than he did with the multitudes. Christ didn't sugarcoat his words with the religious people. Christ exposed the hypocrisy of the religious infrastructure with strong offensive language. Christ approach to the masses was different. The Sermon on the Mount and The Beatitudes were a softer approach for the masses.

Paul's approach to the legalism was intense. Paul said the religious structure trying to invade the church in Galatia was witchcraft. Anyone who prefers encouraging gossip in a volatile situation needs reminded what the Bible says about gossip.

People who claim to be mature christians but encourage gossip should be held to a higher standard.

I understand why you wouldn't want to be mentored by me. I don't have time to babysit a legalistic spirit. Legalism is a spirit of death. Death is not a welcomed guest in my group. The people God has blessed me to mentor have seen physical healings, miracles, restorations. The people I mentor are taught how to get results. You can't train a legalist Biblical concepts, and you definitely can't train the trailer park trash webcam prophets to walk in the fullness of Christ. They already know everything about the Bible.

This is where you don't know me, yet you accuse me of having a legalistic spirit? . If you knew me, you wouldn't refer to me in that way at all. No siree! Bahahahaha.

I object to anybody calling anybody else names like trash or anything you can think up to condescend anybody else...something you do well. You telling other people not to gossip while you condesend people is like the pot calling the kettle black.

In fact I think most of your opinions are hilarious...and I do laugh at them. You are like a loose cannon...shooting your mouth off at everybody who disagrees with you.

The reason why I would not want to be mentored by you is because of your attitude. It stinks. There is something quite creepy about you.