A Tweet by TFT: Advice for Young Preachers

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Timmy

No! Ignore their advice and figure it all out yourself. But. Wait. If TFT is an elder, and we ignored that advice, .... Uh oh. I'm stuck in a loop!

At least I'm not the only one confused.

[trialedbyfire]

Originally Posted by Old Paths

"If you’ve been called to reach this generation of unchurched people"

Anyone want to give "unchurched" a swing???

I've heard this before, which is why I'm interested in how people feel about this theory's merits. From my understanding there's a move in modern Christianity to abandon certain traditions in order to reach a generation that is viewed as one that is not used to "church" or the way things are done in "church".

I remember a pastor I sat under once told me "we live in one of the most biblically illiterate generations that has ever existed in America." Which I personally believe is true. We live in an age where the most popularly quoted scripture is "come as you are", which coincidentally isn't a verse in scripture.

I'll concede this. That this generation is as far removed from traditional "church" as it is known to the Pentecostal diaspora as it can get. It is also far removed from the principles of scripture. Most of my evangelism has centered on people who are considered "unchurched" some of them have never set foot in a church setting in their lives, outside of weddings or funerals. Many have never read the Bible, couldn't tell you who Peter, Paul, or John the Baptist are and think Noah's Ark was a bed time story.

I remember when I began "hitting the streets" as a young minister, and we'd have street services in the city. We'd have numerous ministers, one would sing a song, one would read a scripture, the other would preach. The rest of us, while the preacher was preaching would answer questions. A philosophy I followed then was taught to me by a mentor of mine int he faith "preaching gets their attention, but talking to them and connecting to the lost is what keeps their attention long enough to reach them and save their soul".

We'd offer to take them to a restaurant pay for their meal, so we could talk to them. We were taught how to ask questions, see where they were spiritually and work from there.

I remember an experience that I had at the church I'm at now not to long ago was there was this young man, maybe 16, that came to the altar repeatedly every sunday. I had no clue who he was, but he came with a friend who was the son of one of the members. Immediately a couple of the older ladies in the church (and I know their intentions were good...) would bum rush the poor boy, and start yelling in his ear, telling him to lift his hands, worship, love the Lord, tell the Lord "I Love you Jesus"....etc. The boy would barely respond and at times look confused and frustrated. He kept coming though, for whatever reason. One day I got tired of it and after service, while he was still at the altar I walked over to him, sat down on the altar next to him and said "bro do you even know what's going on when all these people are yelling in your ear?" And he looked at me and said no. I asked him if anyone had talked to him about the Holy Ghost, he said no.

I asked him if he knew what repentance was. He said no.
I asked him if he knew what SIN was. He said no.

So I sat there and explained to him in terms he could understand as a 16 year old catholic who had been to his catholic church twice in his remembrance could understand.

One thing I have found in many Pentecostal churches is we have generations of Pentecostals that are raised a certain way and are so accustom to our faith, that they aren't able to reach out to people outside of the Pentecostal diaspora. There isn't a relevant message being preached to people who need the gospel, because pentecostals aren't very good at sitting down with people and explaining the scriptures, and quite frankly, I'll just be honest some of our youth just don't know the scriptures well enough to sit down with people and explain them.

I'll give a Biblical example. Acts 8, when Phillip ran into the Ethiopian eunuch, he sat down with the Ethiopian and explained the scriptures to him line upon line, precept upon precept and was able to provide the answer to the issues the Ethiopian was having with scripture. Some people have issues, but it's my experience that the scriptures have the answer for EVERY question man can come up with about life and it's purpose and meaning. Not just the godhead.

The Ethiopian was baptized on spot, because Phillip was able to sit down with him and explain the scripture. I think sometimes we get so caught up in the "churchiness" of our faith, that we forget the word of God and we just do things habitually and expect others to do so because we do it.

Now there's another side to this. There are those who believe our traditions and our ways of doing things are not relevant to this generation. I personally disagree. I don't think the way we have "church" or "do church" or our church structure is not the issue. I believe it's our lack of not reaching out to the lost and treating them like numbers rather then people is what does the trick. The saints that God first breathed on at azusa street in this nation I believe were led of God enough for me to trust their judgment on certain things. Those who were intrusted to establish the church by God I believe knew what they were doing when they did it.

I don't believe that Christ's church should be more concerned about following trends then praying, fasting, and seeking God's will like our elders did. I don't believe that this trend of making churches into clubs (and no I'm not an ultracon there are churches that on friday nights turn their churches into clubs to attract "young people", I remember one when I was growing up was called "club kingdom", there was a shooting there not to long ago)... is the way to go. I believe in all night prayer services, I believe in church on sunday morning and sunday evening, I believe in tuesday night bible study, prayer and consecration week, and friday night deliverance service. I believe in being in church all week and people thinking your crazy for doing it.

Why wouldn't I? Any chance to be in the house of the Lord and do what christians ought to love to do: worship the Lord, I'll take it. However, I'm not foolish enough to believe other people will love it just because I do. I have to present to them a viable reason they'll understand to become partakers in the truth. I just believe we do church the way we do it because there's certain things that we as saints do. There's a certain order of worship and practice that God inspires. We have to find relevant ways to reach those who don't understand "us" however and yes that does step on some ultracons toes. Yes we have to use media, yes we have to use social networks, and any other means available. Our church equipment and technology can't be from the 1980s, etc. And YES we have to search the scripture and justify the things we do and abandon some of our less biblical traditions, like "you didn't speak in tongues for more then fifteen minutes so you're not prayed all the way through".LOL *eye roll*

Just my take.

[The Lemon]

Trialedbyfire,

Like your post....made me think, which is dangerous first thing in the morning! I see you are in the DC area...hmmmm, not far from me - although I am on the eastern shore (you know, the red headed step child of MD).

Having grown up on the shore, and also coming to God in an Apostolic church on the shore - I can tell you that I have seen many ministers come to the Eastern Shore and preach / pastor.

One thing I heard at times was how we (as Apostolics) are battling with the "laid back spirit" of the shore. Well, I never believed it was a "spirit", however, I do believe it is a way of life and a mentality. I have seen folks come over here with a mission to "fix" the shore - they failed. This area needs to be saved, not fixed. Fast pace city living life style does not work on this side of MD, and folks who try to bring that element in and link it with the Gospel struggle.

If any of us go into an area and are culturally illiterate, it will be an uphill climb, in my opinion.

I do appreciate your post.

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Timmy

That TFT, man. He can stretch those characters!

The tweet was a photograph of the words I quoted. I just typed the words out myself instead of posting the photo.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by trialedbyfire

I've heard this before, which is why I'm interested in how people feel about this theory's merits. From my understanding there's a move in modern Christianity to abandon certain traditions in order to reach a generation that is viewed as one that is not used to "church" or the way things are done in "church".

I remember a pastor I sat under once told me "we live in one of the most biblically illiterate generations that has ever existed in America." Which I personally believe is true. We live in an age where the most popularly quoted scripture is "come as you are", which coincidentally isn't a verse in scripture.

I'll concede this. That this generation is as far removed from traditional "church" as it is known to the Pentecostal diaspora as it can get. It is also far removed from the principles of scripture. Most of my evangelism has centered on people who are considered "unchurched" some of them have never set foot in a church setting in their lives, outside of weddings or funerals. Many have never read the Bible, couldn't tell you who Peter, Paul, or John the Baptist are and think Noah's Ark was a bed time story.

I remember when I began "hitting the streets" as a young minister, and we'd have street services in the city. We'd have numerous ministers, one would sing a song, one would read a scripture, the other would preach. The rest of us, while the preacher was preaching would answer questions. A philosophy I followed then was taught to me by a mentor of mine int he faith "preaching gets their attention, but talking to them and connecting to the lost is what keeps their attention long enough to reach them and save their soul".

We'd offer to take them to a restaurant pay for their meal, so we could talk to them. We were taught how to ask questions, see where they were spiritually and work from there.

I remember an experience that I had at the church I'm at now not to long ago was there was this young man, maybe 16, that came to the altar repeatedly every sunday. I had no clue who he was, but he came with a friend who was the son of one of the members. Immediately a couple of the older ladies in the church (and I know their intentions were good...) would bum rush the poor boy, and start yelling in his ear, telling him to lift his hands, worship, love the Lord, tell the Lord "I Love you Jesus"....etc. The boy would barely respond and at times look confused and frustrated. He kept coming though, for whatever reason. One day I got tired of it and after service, while he was still at the altar I walked over to him, sat down on the altar next to him and said "bro do you even know what's going on when all these people are yelling in your ear?" And he looked at me and said no. I asked him if anyone had talked to him about the Holy Ghost, he said no.

I asked him if he knew what repentance was. He said no.
I asked him if he knew what SIN was. He said no.

So I sat there and explained to him in terms he could understand as a 16 year old catholic who had been to his catholic church twice in his remembrance could understand.

One thing I have found in many Pentecostal churches is we have generations of Pentecostals that are raised a certain way and are so accustom to our faith, that they aren't able to reach out to people outside of the Pentecostal diaspora. There isn't a relevant message being preached to people who need the gospel, because pentecostals aren't very good at sitting down with people and explaining the scriptures, and quite frankly, I'll just be honest some of our youth just don't know the scriptures well enough to sit down with people and explain them.

I'll give a Biblical example. Acts 8, when Phillip ran into the Ethiopian eunuch, he sat down with the Ethiopian and explained the scriptures to him line upon line, precept upon precept and was able to provide the answer to the issues the Ethiopian was having with scripture. Some people have issues, but it's my experience that the scriptures have the answer for EVERY question man can come up with about life and it's purpose and meaning. Not just the godhead.

The Ethiopian was baptized on spot, because Phillip was able to sit down with him and explain the scripture. I think sometimes we get so caught up in the "churchiness" of our faith, that we forget the word of God and we just do things habitually and expect others to do so because we do it.

Now there's another side to this. There are those who believe our traditions and our ways of doing things are not relevant to this generation. I personally disagree. I don't think the way we have "church" or "do church" or our church structure is not the issue. I believe it's our lack of not reaching out to the lost and treating them like numbers rather then people is what does the trick. The saints that God first breathed on at azusa street in this nation I believe were led of God enough for me to trust their judgment on certain things. Those who were intrusted to establish the church by God I believe knew what they were doing when they did it.

I don't believe that Christ's church should be more concerned about following trends then praying, fasting, and seeking God's will like our elders did. I don't believe that this trend of making churches into clubs (and no I'm not an ultracon there are churches that on friday nights turn their churches into clubs to attract "young people", I remember one when I was growing up was called "club kingdom", there was a shooting there not to long ago)... is the way to go. I believe in all night prayer services, I believe in church on sunday morning and sunday evening, I believe in tuesday night bible study, prayer and consecration week, and friday night deliverance service. I believe in being in church all week and people thinking your crazy for doing it.

Why wouldn't I? Any chance to be in the house of the Lord and do what christians ought to love to do: worship the Lord, I'll take it. However, I'm not foolish enough to believe other people will love it just because I do. I have to present to them a viable reason they'll understand to become partakers in the truth. I just believe we do church the way we do it because there's certain things that we as saints do. There's a certain order of worship and practice that God inspires. We have to find relevant ways to reach those who don't understand "us" however and yes that does step on some ultracons toes. Yes we have to use media, yes we have to use social networks, and any other means available. Our church equipment and technology can't be from the 1980s, etc. And YES we have to search the scripture and justify the things we do and abandon some of our less biblical traditions, like "you didn't speak in tongues for more then fifteen minutes so you're not prayed all the way through".LOL *eye roll*

Just my take.

I think people raised "in the church" need to be taught this as well.

[StillStanding]

There are some awesome heart-felt responses to this thread.

Notice that the emphasis is on the approach, and not the message. Our given culture is constantly changing, and we must find new and effective ways of reaching our generation. I come from the music side of ministry, and I remember the epiphany I had about ten years ago that the 'leading edge' music style that I was entrenched in for many years was now "old school"!

Still to this day I am more touched and blessed with my favorite style of keyboard driven (piano and Hammond organ) gospel music. I don't connect very well with the new wave contemporary guitar driven style. The problem that I noticed is that my children connected very well with the new style and not so much with my favorite style. My grandchildren? I might as well be playing ragtime!

I find it interesting that the same preachers who were revolutionary and effective when they were young, are now trying to hold back the new generation of preachers by maintaining the approach that they themselves blazed. They have transformed from being entrepreneur to being a maintainer. They are asking the next generation to be a maintainer only, and keep their entrepreneur spirit under wraps.

What will the end result be? If it were a business, it might be planning a "going out of business" sale!