Dropped By & Somewhat Dismayed But Not Surprised

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by H Gang

Your experiences were good with the man. A lot of people can say the same thing. Your loyalty is the result of those good memories. There are others who were abused spiritually by this very person who had such a capacity for good. And there aren't just a few. There's quite a long list. For many I know these discussions have been healing and a vindication of what they believed was a man who, although worshiped by some, had gross hypocrisy in his own life and used his office and influenece to destroy people, alienate people and ostracize people---sometimes for offenses far less egregious than what surfaced to be his own. Happy for you and your warm fuzzies. There are many whose memories of him are less than fond.

well said H Gang~

[KeptByTheWord]

Bro. Ron,

I think most people who posted on the thread in question were terribly saddened to hear of the things that went down with TB and his church. Even more sad was that there apparently was no remorse or true repentance sought.

Think of how this sad story could be playing out differently, had TB had sought repentance, even as King David did. There has been not one post from anyone closely involved with TB who supported that the man had sought repentance, and that saddens more than anything.

Of course, we can't claim to know the heart, as only God is the judge of that. But have there been any public fruits of repentance?

I don't believe any of us are above sin, and indeed, if we find ourselves in a position of ministry, we know how much more Satan seeks to attack and to destroy those in ministry!

Brother Ron, no one is bashing the ministry, but it is just saddening to see that someone in such a position could not find his way to a place of repentance and bring forth fruits meet for repentance, and truly fall into the hands of a merciful God.

Indeed, if we don't believe in repentance, what are any of us doing trying to get to heaven? For all of us need the mercy of God, every day!

No, the issue here really is this... this man fell, made some terrible mistakes (haven't we all in one form or another!) but.... has there been a heart full of repentance? Has there been fruits of repentance public or otherwise?

That is the question we are all asking....are there fruits of repentance from this great sin with its consequences that have greatly affected the saints of this church?

Of course, may all of us learn to forgive, even as we desire to be forgiven. None of us are above wrong-doing, but all of us can seek repentance, and a turning away from the sin, and a desire to make things right as we fall into the hands of a merciful God.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by Godzchild

well said H Gang~

Part of the pain was trying to convince people how unfair, unjust, condemning and manipulative this man could be to some of us when his public profile was a great leader, pastor, anointed vessel and servant of Jesus Christ. There were many friends and family members driven far away from Jesus, from church. Yet we were the ones who had a bad spirit, unsubmissive, carnal, worldly, defective even backslidden.

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by H Gang

Part of the pain was trying to convince people how unfair, unjust, condemning and manipulative this man could be to some of us when his public profile was a great leader, pastor, anointed vessel and servant of Jesus Christ. There were many friends and family members driven far away from Jesus, from church. Yet we were the ones who had a bad spirit, unsubmissive, carnal, worldly, defective even backslidden.

you hit the nail on the head! MANY FAMILIES!!!!!

[MissBrattified]

Ron,

Your concerns have validity, but the AFF is a group of members--not just admins. The AFF admin team tries not to censor anymore than necessary and of COURSE members of the AFF Admin team are free to post just like any other member, in accordance with the rules. The mistake, I think, is assuming that a post by a member of admin represents some sort of official position.

AFF is a venue for discussion, and hopefully a safe place for people to explore topics, express themselves and even just to vent (like your thread).

I haven't always approved of every discussion, and I certainly don't like gossip or slander; on the other hand, I have learned that it's okay for people to vent and that it isn't my job to try to shut down every person or conversation that isn't my cup of tea.

I have personally benefited from my time on these forums, beginning with the FCF years ago. I have needed a break from time to time, but most of my experience has been positive. I have learned to appreciate views other than my own, I have learned to dig into the Word to find answers for myself, and I have learned that friends can come in many forms. One of the most important experiences for me, coming here after a traumatic experience at an UC church, was encountering people like Bro. Epley and Sister Alvear (and others) who are both staunchly conservative and consistently kind hearted. Posting with very liberal believers, I learned that I'm more traditional than I realized and that realization has helped me find some sure footing on nice, firm middle ground. Bottom line, I appreciate these forums for what they have been, no more, no less. I'm not on a mission to mold this forum or any of its members into what I view as ideal.

I'm not terribly interested in participating in the Memphis threads, but I'm also not terribly interested in stopping a conversation that might need to take place--maybe not for me, but maybe for some of the upset people who have posted and have received some VERY positive feedback from members here.

[H Gang]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Brother Ron, no one is bashing the ministry, but it is just saddening to see that someone in such a position could not find his way to a place of repentance and bring forth fruits meet for repentance, and truly fall into the hands of a merciful God.

Question: is he in the ministry now?

Question: is he a "man of God" now?

Question: is he a Christian brother now?

[Godzchild]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Bro. Ron,

I think most people who posted on the thread in question were terribly saddened to hear of the things that went down with TB and his church. Even more sad was that there apparently was no remorse or true repentance sought.

Think of how this sad story could be playing out differently, had TB had sought repentance, even as King David did. There has been not one post from anyone closely involved with TB who supported that the man had sought repentance, and that saddens more than anything.

Of course, we can't claim to know the heart, as only God is the judge of that. But have there been any public fruits of repentance?

I don't believe any of us are above sin, and indeed, if we find ourselves in a position of ministry, we know how much more Satan seeks to attack and to destroy those in ministry!

Brother Ron, no one is bashing the ministry, but it is just saddening to see that someone in such a position could not find his way to a place of repentance and bring forth fruits meet for repentance, and truly fall into the hands of a merciful God.

Indeed, if we don't believe in repentance, what are any of us doing trying to get to heaven? For all of us need the mercy of God, every day!

No, the issue here really is this... this man fell, made some terrible mistakes (haven't we all in one form or another!) but.... has there been a heart full of repentance? Has there been fruits of repentance public or otherwise?

That is the question we are all asking....are there fruits of repentance from this great sin with its consequences that have greatly affected the saints of this church?

Of course, may all of us learn to forgive, even as we desire to be forgiven. None of us are above wrong-doing, but all of us can seek repentance, and a turning away from the sin, and a desire to make things right as we fall into the hands of a merciful God.

(Keptbytheword) asked.....
"has there been a heart full of repentance? Has there been fruits of repentance public or otherwise?
That is the question we are all asking....are there fruits of repentance from this great sin with its consequences that have greatly affected the saints of this church?" the answer is NO...not that anyone has said thus far.......... and that is the saddest part of this whole heart breaking thread about a wayward~fallen pastor

[Ron]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

IS God impressed with the slogging of His sheep by pastors???

That isn't the question, does God like the slogging of Apostolic Ministers by anyone?

I'll give you an example in Acts chapter 23:1-5
23 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.

3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest?

5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

These were the people who crucified the Lord!
Up to you brethren, but you are dealing with fire & not the kind that you want to go near either!

[Ron]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Bro. Ron,

I think most people who posted on the thread in question were terribly saddened to hear of the things that went down with TB and his church. Even more sad was that there apparently was no remorse or true repentance sought.

Think of how this sad story could be playing out differently, had TB had sought repentance, even as King David did. There has been not one post from anyone closely involved with TB who supported that the man had sought repentance, and that saddens more than anything.

Of course, we can't claim to know the heart, as only God is the judge of that. But have there been any public fruits of repentance?

I don't believe any of us are above sin, and indeed, if we find ourselves in a position of ministry, we know how much more Satan seeks to attack and to destroy those in ministry!

Brother Ron, no one is bashing the ministry, but it is just saddening to see that someone in such a position could not find his way to a place of repentance and bring forth fruits meet for repentance, and truly fall into the hands of a merciful God.

Indeed, if we don't believe in repentance, what are any of us doing trying to get to heaven? For all of us need the mercy of God, every day!

No, the issue here really is this... this man fell, made some terrible mistakes (haven't we all in one form or another!) but.... has there been a heart full of repentance? Has there been fruits of repentance public or otherwise?

That is the question we are all asking....are there fruits of repentance from this great sin with its consequences that have greatly affected the saints of this church?

Of course, may all of us learn to forgive, even as we desire to be forgiven. None of us are above wrong-doing, but all of us can seek repentance, and a turning away from the sin, and a desire to make things right as we fall into the hands of a merciful God.

At the risk of making a pun where none is intended, this isn't the forum for that.
The foeum is the Church & the affected parties--period.
This just gives a platform for anyone disgruntled with the Minstry either real or imagined & nothing good Biblical or otherwise can come of it.

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Ron

That isn't the question, does God like the slogging of Apostolic Ministers by anyone?

I'll give you an example in Acts chapter 23:1-5
23 And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.

2 And the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by him to smite him on the mouth.

3 Then said Paul unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall: for sittest thou to judge me after the law, and commandest me to be smitten contrary to the law?

4 And they that stood by said, Revilest thou God's high priest?

5 Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

These were the people who crucified the Lord!
Up to you brethren, but you are dealing with fire & not the kind that you want to go near either!

I get what you're saying Ron, but here's a question for you - how did Jesus talk about the Pharisees? Was he kind and gentle towards those who put on a good front, wore fancy garments, sat in the high seats, and bound up heavy burdens to put on men and women when they themselves wouldn't even bear the burdens?

In my mind, any pastor who preaches against sin from the pulpit, and disciplines folks for partaking in such - ALL THE WHILE, living in horrible sin themselves, well, they are nothing more than Pharisees. This coming from a former pastor, so please don't think I have all ministers in my sights......I put myself in the same boat.