Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Insider

We are trying to have a civil discussion that is actually constructive.

This would surely be a change from the norm. I don't think there would be a problem with a 'civil discussion' on the failures of church government.

Or discussing what needs to be done to ensure accountability.

These are valid, important, and very serious issues.

Where credibility is lost is when the discussion turns into sad attempts of humor, mockery, and insult at the expense of a fallen man.

We'll see how 'civil' this discussion will be from here forward.

Your first bump in the road will be keeping your buddy Godzchild in check. GC seems to find humor in this tragedy, , , , somehow.

[Insider]

Originally Posted by scotty

This would surely be a change from the norm. I don't think there would be a problem with a 'civil discussion' on the failures of church government.

Or discussing what needs to be done to ensure accountability.

These are valid, important, and very serious issues.

Where credibility is lost is when the discussion turns into sad attempts of humor, mockery, and insult at the expense of a fallen man.

We'll see how 'civil' this discussion will be from here forward.

Your first bump in the road will be keeping your buddy Godzchild in check. GC seems to find humor in this tragedy, , , , somehow.

Let's at least try. I am willing if everyone else is. How about it people. Can we actually have a civil discussion without all the extra commentary?

[Insider]

Your first bump in the road will be keeping your buddy Godzchild in check. GC seems to find humor in this tragedy, , , , somehow. [/QUOTE]

First, there is more than enough finger pointing that could be tossed around so we are not getting off to a very good start. All the snipping back and forth is not going to get the job done. We'll see exactly who is willing and who isn't.

[scotty]

Originally Posted by Insider

Your first bump in the road will be keeping your buddy Godzchild in check. GC seems to find humor in this tragedy, , , , somehow.

Insider: First, there is more than enough finger pointing that could be tossed around so we are not getting off to a very good start. All the snipping back and forth is not going to get the job done. We'll see exactly who is willing and who isn't.

Oh, I'm not finger pointing. I reposted GC's own comments here. They are fact. If we can't deal with the simple facts and call a spade a spade then I have little hope for the rest.

So, to start with the simple questions.

1. Why would a person or congregation sit under a man who has no accountability structure around him?

2. How do you hold one accountable in their personal (and often secretive) lives?

And to ask again,
3. How is it that the loudest doctrine preached among the commoners is to follow God and not man, yet the commoners get bent out of shape, hurt, and are usually surprised when the man in their pulpit falls?

[tv1a]

You would do TPC a great service by keeping TPC info in house. As you mentioned this is a game to you. If injecting Biblical truths isnt informative and useful, i don't know what is.

Originally Posted by Insider

I prevert what? What is a prevert? Your comments are getting old. You've made your point. I think you could actually just copy and paste your one comment over and over and save yourself a lot of effort. We are trying to have a civil discussion that is actually constructive. So if you are truly interested and are actually capable of injecting something constructive and helpful, that adds something informative and useful to the discussion please do so, otherwise I think it would serve yourself and the rest of us a service to stop posting the same tired talking points.

[Insider]

1. Why would a person or congregation sit under a man who has no accountability structure around him?

That is the million dollar question for sure. With me and my wife we trusted that the Pastor and the board. We assumed, wrongly, that there were accountability measures already setup. That is where we and others at TPC made our biggest mistake. We were as much to blame as the board members. In retrospect no one, of any church or organization, should assume there are accountability measures in place where you worship. As a tither you have the right to question the church ministry and board.

If the ministry is truly on the up and up they will not have any issues with you simply wanting to know that your tithe monies are appropriately being handled in Biblical ways. If they object then I would then demand it. Ask for a meeting with the Pastor and Board and don't be afraid to ask the hard questions. There were attempts by certain member to question authority. They were met with bullying and intimidation on several fronts. I say this to make a point. These are warning signs that there is trouble somewhere. Usually where there's smoke where there is fire.

2. How do you hold one accountable in their personal (and often secretive) lives?

This is a tricky one. You can't legislate moral character. As was in our case it will eventually come to light. We were blindsided. But there were signs and cracks. Nepotism is the first sign. I know there are father son churches that are legit and I am not saying that arrangement cannot successfully exist. I just know for me and my family I will never be a part of that type of ministry again.

Family and business, and that is what church is, a business, God's business, rarely co-exist is harmony. So I don't have the answer to this.

And to ask again,
3. How is it that the loudest doctrine preached among the commoners is to follow God and not man, yet the commoners get bent out of shape, hurt, and are usually surprised when the man in their pulpit falls?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I see your point and it is a good one. As with TPC there are those that still chose not to believe the mountain of evidence against our former pastor. Some of them have left and some have stayed and this is where a lot of collateral damage occurs. And this is the sad reality we are now facing. Thankfully most of us have come to terms with it and are moving on. You live and learn as they say.

[Insider]

Originally Posted by tv1a

You would do TPC a great service by keeping TPC info in house. As you mentioned this is a game to you. If injecting Biblical truths isnt informative and useful, i don't know what is.

Oh paaaleezz, you are like a fungus! You keep parroting the same tired garbage. Are you not capable of a civil discussion? I invite you to proof me wrong. Because I don't think you are.

[Steve Epley]

Listen up. The truth is that men fail and some fail horribly. Some fail once and repent others live a secret life and are always caught up with. Immorality in the ministry causes one to forfeit that role as leader. "Maybe" in time restored to some type of ministry but never leadership. The preacher who fails morally needs to forget about facing face and try to save his family and soul.
EVERY man has the capabilities and opportunities to fail morally. Safeguards must be placed in his own life to protect his ministry.
Here are my rules:
1. NEVER be alone with a woman who isn't your immediate family.
2. NEVER socially text or have conversations with women that would open the door to flirting. Better be thought unsocialable than an adulterer.
3. If you find yourself enjoying being around a woman who isn't your wife RUN.
4. Do not have cell phones or internet that your wife cannot looks at anytime and always have your computer in an open room never in a locked room.
Obey these four easy rules and you will be safe.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Listen up. The truth is that men fail and some fail horribly. Some fail once and repent others live a secret life and are always caught up with. Immorality in the ministry causes one to forfeit that role as leader. "Maybe" in time restored to some type of ministry but never leadership. The preacher who fails morally needs to forget about [saving] face and try to save his family and soul.
EVERY man has the capabilities and opportunities to fail morally. Safeguards must be placed in his own life to protect his ministry.
Here are my rules:
1. NEVER be alone with a woman who isn't your immediate family.
2. NEVER socially text or have conversations with women that would open the door to flirting. Better be thought unsocialable than an adulterer.

I think the social media stuff is fine as long as its out in the open and transparent. E.g., no private chatting.

3. If you find yourself enjoying being around a woman who isn't your wife RUN.

TRUE! Aka, Joseph!!!! Sometimes people think it's a failure if they can't look temptation in the face and still resist. Sometimes you really DO need to RUN!

4. Do not have cell phones or internet that your wife cannot looks at anytime and always have your computer in an open room never in a locked room.

Too many people keep these things "private." My husband and I know each other's passwords and we always have access to each other's emails, messages, history, etc. It would be a huge red flag, in fact, if either of us tried to withhold that information.

Obey these four easy rules and you will be safe.

:thum bsup

Yep. Let him who thinks he stands, take heed lest he fall. We are ALL capable of stumbling--not just men. It's important that we aren't so arrogant to think we don't need to limit our access to and opportunity for sin.

P.S. Another great tactic is to simply put your phone on speaker anytime you're talking to a woman on the phone. My pastor does this all the time (so his wife can also hear the conversation). I think it's very smart.

[Insider]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Listen up. The truth is that men fail and some fail horribly. Some fail once and repent others live a secret life and are always caught up with. Immorality in the ministry causes one to forfeit that role as leader. "Maybe" in time restored to some type of ministry but never leadership. The preacher who fails morally needs to forget about facing face and try to save his family and soul. EVERY man has the capabilities and opportunities to fail morally. Safeguards must be placed in his own life to protect his ministry.

Here are my rules:
1. NEVER be alone with a woman who isn't your immediate family.
2. NEVER socially text or have conversations with women that would open the door to flirting. Better be thought unsocialable than an adulterer.
3. If you find yourself enjoying being around a woman who isn't your wife RUN.
4. Do not have cell phones or internet that your wife cannot looks at anytime and always have your computer in an open room never in a locked room.
Obey these four easy rules and you will be safe.

I bet I know a few that wished they had followed these rules. Self-Decipline is the key here. I've certainly had opportunity as have others. The temptation is always there. That is why it is so important that we monitor what we watch and hear. Guard your heart so to say. But these are certainly good rules to follow. Some have more self-control than others. Flesh is flesh. I have fallen short in my life several times.

I have never cheated on my wife though. Don't plan to. But if I did I would hope that I could man up and do the right thing and not try and sweep it under the rug. An unrepentant heart, I believe, is as bad the sin. We all fail, but to have the stones to confess and ask forgiveness is so important, and there can be no healing without it.