Gleason's quote smacks of Calvinism. I doubt he would subscribe to Calvinistic theology however.
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When a newspaper posed the question, "What's Wrong with the World?" G. K. Chesterton reputedly wrote a brief letter in response: "Dear Sirs: I am. Sincerely Yours, G. K. Chesterton." That is the attitude of someone who has grasped the message of Jesus.
I agree with your thesis, it's clear that Paul says that God sends the delusion....my confusion stems from the scripture you referenced juxtaposed against the two I've listed below......
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Hebrews 6:18 (KJV)
That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
In my way of thinking, and the way I interpret these scriptures is God can only send truth, and in order for Him to send a delusion He would be propogating a lie, which is impossible.
A conundrum!
Michael, the way I see it is that when God sends delusion, it is a spirit that does not allow a person to see the truth, but only their own false reality.
That is not God lying. It is God turning them over to themselves. I also see that in the quote in the opening post.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Well...I'm not at BOTT, but my pastor is and a few ministers from the church - so I can't comment on the message.
What I will say, is that, in context, for God to send a strong delusion, a person has had to reach a point of total abandonment of God, His Word, morality, character and etc., etc. I said that, because one thing I see too often is folks making out like God will send this delusion at the drop of a hat, as soon as a person flubs or make a bad choice...that is ridiculous, and is really a scare tactic at best.
I have known people, howbeit very few, who turned their back literally on God and His Word altogether...yes, scary indeed.
I believe in the prodigal son, I believe that if a person is trying their best, cares, and wants to grow in relationship to God - regardless of how many mistakes they may make on the way, God is not going to just write them off.
The issue that I have seen from a ministerial level, and it is sad, is when ministers write saints off when they don't line up, or sit down preachers over standards, and with all that, have the nerve to talk about these folks as backslidden and under "delusion" - that my friend is pathetic. I don't need a ruler, and certainly don't need to control personal aspects of a persons walk with God in order to affirm their calling and election...God calls us to minister not to be control freaks.
Strip away the pomp and circumstance and view a persons character and integrity, and you will see the direction their lives are in and what is important....micro management is not necessary, nor is scare tactics and stories about those who did not "line up".
Sorry for the rant, but I have seen this over and over...
Stan Gleason preaching today at Because of the Times said, "The reason that deception feels like revelation is that they both come from God. Heaven, give us ears to hear!"
So.....
God tells lies? He is a deceiver?
He must read a different Bible...
No...same bible, DB.
The scripture in second Thessalonians says 'they' received not the truth, that they might be saved...so God sent them strong delusions, that they might believe a lie and be damned. Very sobering thought.
I know people...and I'm sure you do too...who once believed the Apostolic doctrine with all their heart...who have now turned against it. I've never seen anything like what has happened to the Church in the last decade. After a while, God just lets you believe what you want to.
I know people...and I'm sure you do too...who once believed the Apostolic doctrine with all their heart...who have now turned against it. I've never seen anything like what has happened to the Church in the last decade. After a while, God just lets you believe what you want to.
If that is the case, I am glad that God blessed me with the delusion of opening my mind to receive a much truer and greater Gospel.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
The scripture in second Thessalonians says 'they' received not the truth, that they might be saved...so God sent them strong delusions, that they might believe a lie and be damned. Very sobering thought.
I know people...and I'm sure you do too...who once believed the Apostolic doctrine with all their heart...who have now turned against it. I've never seen anything like what has happened to the Church in the last decade. After a while, God just lets you believe what you want to.
We need a love for the truth, not simply an adherence or even a belief in the truth.
The truth of Acts 2:38 is that scripture presents two commands and a Promise.
The truth of the Gospel is that we are saved by Grace through Faith-- a faith that leads to repentance, obedience, and salvation.
It was an interesting experience sitting in my A/G church last night, hearing the Pastor preach about the infilling of the Holy Ghost and hearing him quote all of the same prooftexts and scriptures to come to a result that is only slightly different.
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"The choices we make reveal the true nature of our character."
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
We need a love for the truth, not simply an adherence or even a belief in the truth.
The truth of Acts 2:38 is that scripture presents two commands and a Promise.
The truth of the Gospel is that we are saved by Grace through Faith-- a faith that leads to repentance, obedience, and salvation.
It was an interesting experience sitting in my A/G church last night, hearing the Pastor preach about the infilling of the Holy Ghost and hearing him quote all of the same prooftexts and scriptures to come to a result that is only slightly different.
Well...I'm not at BOTT, but my pastor is and a few ministers from the church - so I can't comment on the message.
What I will say, is that, in context, for God to send a strong delusion, a person has had to reach a point of total abandonment of God, His Word, morality, character and etc., etc. I said that, because one thing I see too often is folks making out like God will send this delusion at the drop of a hat, as soon as a person flubs or make a bad choice...that is ridiculous, and is really a scare tactic at best.
I have known people, howbeit very few, who turned their back literally on God and His Word altogether...yes, scary indeed.
I believe in the prodigal son, I believe that if a person is trying their best, cares, and wants to grow in relationship to God - regardless of how many mistakes they may make on the way, God is not going to just write them off.
The issue that I have seen from a ministerial level, and it is sad, is when ministers write saints off when they don't line up, or sit down preachers over standards, and with all that, have the nerve to talk about these folks as backslidden and under "delusion" - that my friend is pathetic. I don't need a ruler, and certainly don't need to control personal aspects of a persons walk with God in order to affirm their calling and election...God calls us to minister not to be control freaks.
Strip away the pomp and circumstance and view a persons character and integrity, and you will see the direction their lives are in and what is important....micro management is not necessary, nor is scare tactics and stories about those who did not "line up".
Sorry for the rant, but I have seen this over and over...
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