Something interesting about gays.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Luke

Please show me the difference of a sin nature and a flesh nature in the Bible. Also when did man first get a flesh nature and how does a flesh nature affect us (just in case we are actually talking about different things)?

You also did not respond to my illustration showing that whatever it was that Paul was struggling with in Romans 7 is removed in chapter 8.

In ch 7 Paul is not speaking past tense but present tense. Nothing is removed. Rather something is added, the Spirit (see chp 8)

[Michael Phelps]

Originally Posted by Luke

No response Mr Phelps. Let me illustrate my point as it applies to Romans 7 and 8. In romans 7 we are told by Paul in verse 21 22 23 that what he struggled with was a law of sin. In Romans 8:2 Paul that the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made him free from the law of sin and death.

Now by way of illustration lets substitute the word CHAIN for the phrase LAW OF SIN we would then find Paul saying he was bound by a CHIAN in chapter 7 and freed from a CHAIN in chapter 8. To say therefore that Paul meant he was given the power to overcome and resist the CHAIN but not have it removed would be the same as saying that by loosening the CHAIN to where you could hobble around was freedom. Such an idea makes no sense! If someone is bound by a chain and them set free it means the chain was removed from them and in no longer on them! In just the same way when Paul says he was freed from from the law of sin that he speaks of struggleing with in chapter 7 it means the same thing that it was removed and he no longer had it! Otherwise why did he not say " the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath helped me with the law of sin and death rather than freed me from the law of sin and death.

Sorry, Luke, wasn't avoiding you, just don't get online much over the weekends!

Your point is valid, and basically, I think we're saying the same thing....my point is that there are some who say "Jesus was incapable of sinning". My feeling is that, just like us, he was "capable of NOT sinning".

Not semantics - those are two separate issues.

I don't care how full of the Holy Ghost someone is, there is always a temptation in their lives. Overcomers resist, but they are not immune to, the temptation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

ISBE
Flesh in the sense of carnal nature (σάρκικος, sárkikos, “carnal”; the King James Version uses sarkinós in Rom_7:14). Human nature, being inferior to the spiritual, is to be in subjection to it. If man refuses to be under this higher law, and as a free agent permits the lower nature to gain an ascendancy over the spirit, the “flesh” becomes a revolting force (Gen_6:3, Gen_6:12; Joh_1:13; Rom_7:14; 1Co_3:1, 1Co_3:3; Col_2:18; 1Jo_2:16). Thus, the fleshly or carnal mind, i.e. a mind in subjection to carnal nature, is opposed to the Divine spirit, who alone is a sufficient corrective, Christ having secured for us the power of overcoming (Rom_8:3), if we manifest a deep desire and an earnest endeavor to overcome (Gal_5:17, Gal_5:18).

There are some aspects to our carnal nature that aren't entirely subject to the Spirit. For example, hormones and sex drive. Not all can be celibate. For these, Paul admonishes marriage. Many have hormonal imbalances that lead to fits of rage etc. Disease is another aspect that we still face regardless. And ultimate death. And that's just to name a very few.

How is to say, if "homosexuality" is partly a condition of our fallen flesh, that it isn't something one can just "change" at will???

What if a supernatural "healing" of a person, down to the core, is necessary?

Just a thought.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

my point is that there are some who say "Jesus was incapable of sinning". My feeling is that, just like us, he was "capable of NOT sinning".

Not semantics - those are two separate issues.

I have never seen it put like that. He was able to sin, but didn't. Not sure that I agree or disagree. That really is a different perspective.

[houston]

I just want to clarify. I post stuff to see if and how people will respond. Sometimes people reply. Many times they do not. Anyway, I'm fine. I had a friend read this thread and call to check to see if I am okay. I am okay.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by houston

I just want to clarify. I post stuff to see if and how people will respond. Sometimes people reply. Many times they do not. Anyway, I'm fine. I had a friend read this thread and call to check to see if I am okay. I am okay.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Cindy

What?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Ferd

I believe that God does deliver us from immediately...sometimes.

I know people who had horrible addictions and God delivered them in a miraculous way.

I have seen this happen in my own life. I have also seen the grace of God guide a person thru difficult waters without deliverance.
They struggle. They fall, and get up and go on. And God leads and guides.

There was a time in my life when I didn’t understand that. Why didn’t God just poof stuff away?
Then the more I reflected the more I searched scripture and I see in scripture the Grace of God in action in the life of Paul.
Paul says in the book of Titus that the Grace of God that brings salvation teaches us… (Titus 2:11-12)
So I began to see Paul’s words in the light of Paul’s life.
I believe this is Paul’s thorn in the flesh. I have no proof and it certainly is no point of doctrine but this is my personal belief and it has meant a lot to me.

Paul was arrogant. He was harsh at times and self-justified in actions that can only be viewed as inflexible.
Paul says in one place that he “withstood Peter to his face” There was a conflict and Peter was wrong and Paul was right, but the indication is that this happened in public and it was ugly.
In another place we learn that Paul and Barnabas had a falling out over John Mark. The guy who eventually wrote the book of Mark.

Mark was young and Barnabas saw something in him that made him want to work with the kid. Barnabas invited Mark to make a missionary journey. Things got hard and Mark started complaining. Paul was NOT kind. In the end Barnabas and Paul had a serious falling out. They went in different directions because Paul had no time for a snot nosed kid.

But at the end of Paul’s life we see something very different. We see him saying “send John Mark to me for he is profitable for me”. ME. PAUL. Paul needed this man whom he had not been willing to help.

There was a shift over the life of Paul that softened that hardness that caused Paul grief. I think Paul knew about this thing. I think that is what Paul was praying that God would deliver him from and what God simply told him that His Grace would suffice.

Paul needed to walk thru that trial and not simply be delivered. It is instructive. WE have difficulties that we are not delivered from. That we must walk thru. God’s Grace is there. It bring salvation, but it also is instructive in our daily lives if we will bend ourselves to its instruction.

Does God deliver? Certainly. Does God deliver by his Grace, thru the fire that Peter talks of? Without question.

Absolutely love this post!!!!

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Sorry, Luke, wasn't avoiding you, just don't get online much over the weekends!

Your point is valid, and basically, I think we're saying the same thing....my point is that there are some who say "Jesus was incapable of sinning". My feeling is that, just like us, he was "capable of NOT sinning".

Not semantics - those are two separate issues.

I don't care how full of the Holy Ghost someone is, there is always a temptation in their lives. Overcomers resist, but they are not immune to, the temptation.

I agree 100 percent

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Michael Phelps

Sorry, Luke, wasn't avoiding you, just don't get online much over the weekends!

Your point is valid, and basically, I think we're saying the same thing....my point is that there are some who say "Jesus was incapable of sinning". My feeling is that, just like us, he was "capable of NOT sinning".

Not semantics - those are two separate issues.

I don't care how full of the Holy Ghost someone is, there is always a temptation in their lives. Overcomers resist, but they are not immune to, the temptation.

I'm not sure I agree.

One of the basic ways a man is tempted to sin is through deception.

I Timothy 2:14 "And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Reading John 2:25 "And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man."

If Jesus knew what was already in man, how could He be deceived and therefore sin at any time?