To tithe or not to tithe?

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

That's why the US is going down the tube.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Yes, and I'm an example. I'm what they call "bi-vocational": I serve in pastoral ministry in a small church, and I also own a business which supports my family and I. I do not receive a salary at this time from the church, so I serve there because I believe God called me there.

That is great. You are a minority. There are a few in my region, but these are not in the upci.

Originally Posted by DaveC519

I agree that the subject of tithes is not a salvation issue. However, I do consider it to be a commandment issue, and, as with all of the Lord's commandments, there are attached to them blessings for obedience and cursings for disobedience.

Paul never commanded tithes despite what you say. Paul certainly never cursed another for not paying tithes.

Paul taught certain things including.....What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.

(I Corinthians 9:18)


In fact, lets just use the same verses you all use when you try to prove a NT tithe.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
15 But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void.
16 For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel!
17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.
18 What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel.



Cheerful NT giving does not specify who to give it to. Ya'll just assume that it must go to the pastor.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

It's called legalism!

Yep.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Dordrecht

That's why the US is going down the tube.

Dordt, please clarify what disobedience the US is going down the tubes for?

Is it because the people in the US do not pay the tithe to a pastor? Or is it because the people of the US do not worship and praise the One true Father, our Creator and maker of heaven and earth?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

I am wondering....if God called a man to preach and he did not receive one red cent...would he still preach? Does he make his preaching a profession or fulfill the calling of Christ in his life?

Most of the threads that people fight about on this forum is about standards and money.
Christ did not come to die for us about those two shallow issues.
He came to fulfill a much bigger picture.

If all he did was preach occasionally and had a full time job, sure. But if he was a full time minister, teaching bible studies, doing visitations (visitors to church) and visiting people sick in hospitals while preparing messages for Wed night, Sun morning and evening services as well as being Mr Fix-it around the church he might not be able to work full time.

[AreYouReady?]

Prax, I have always had a hard time understanding why only the pastor does these things?

Are there not any spiritual men who can go and visit the sick and pray with them?

Are there not any handy men in the church who after their jobs can go and fix things?

Isn't the body of Christ supposed to fit like a glove and work together to spread the gospel and pray with each other, see after each other's needs?

[Praxeas]

Why should tithes be limited to the law? tithing predates the law when Abraham tithed of the spoils of war...do you think that was just agriculture?

Tithing was a system of support for the Levites, the full time priests and the poor, not to mention Offerings which we see in the NT was monetary.

Mar 12:41 And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums.
Mar 12:42 And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny.
Mar 12:43 And he called his disciples to him and said to them, "Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box.
Mar 12:44 For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on."

In the NT the principle of tithing is alluded to by Paul

1Co 9:13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?
1Co 9:14 In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

It's a principle.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Prax, I have always had a hard time understanding why only the pastor does these things?

Are there not any spiritual men who can go and visit the sick and pray with them?

Are there not any handy men in the church who after their jobs can go and fix things?

Isn't the body of Christ supposed to fit like a glove and work together to spread the gospel and pray with each other, see after each other's needs?

probably because everyone else is working full time with a wife, kids and a home to take care of?

Yes we should all work but clearly we can't all be full time workers

[AreYouReady?]

Many people find time to go and visit and pray with a shut in or sick in the hospital.

Many people can find time to help fix things around the church building.

It happens. And it should not all fall upon the pastor to do these things.

My neighbors had church in their homes. Nobody was unduly burdened...ever. I was amazed at how the money poured in when one of their own was sick. After all the bills were paid...and the funeral...there was still money left and it was sent to someone else in their network who needed the funds.

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Dordt, please clarify what disobedience the US is going down the tubes for?

"In general" : Because of the abortion, homosexual, pornography and other government approved issues.