I believe that we are not an island unto ourselves. Part of the great commission is being a part of the body of Christ.
However, that body has been corrupted so badly beginning with Constantine, that it is not recognizable at all as the body Christ intended for it to be, and which body Paul spent much time outlining.
For that reason because a "pope" reigns in most churches, and has absolute say and authority in most things that go on... I don't believe that many churches even have a clue about how the real body of Christ functions.
For that reason, our family is involved in house church and fellowship, and while it is not perfect, it is better than the alternative, which is going and listening to a little "pope" speak and everyone else bow down and practically worship the ground he walks on, and bend and bow to his every wish and dictum. Of course, this example is just one of many where our churches nowadays can be related right back to the RCC. This is a soapbox I could wax eloquent on, but won't. I don't want to derail this thread.
But, I do believe all that being said, that the body of Christ needs to function with other members working together. WHERE those members come together and worship does not matter... but it does matter that they join themselves together in a time of worship, prayer, exhorting, and fellowship. I do believe we need to be a part of a body of a group of people whose sole intent and purpose is to further the gospel of Jesus, and to love and encourage and strengthen one another... WHEREVER that may be... a house, a home, a church building, a tent... I don't think the Lord cares about the building... He cares about the people who are meeting together!
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It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Ugh.. I guess Paul and the Apostles established churches with Elders and Deacons for no reason. It was just a waist of time. All that work for nothing. smh
Israel had leadership they had to obey and organization as a religion. New Testament Christianity was designed to have well-established leadership, order, protocol, and organized. I'm sorry if you don't like organized religion, because that's what Biblical Christianity is, organized religion, and it's more intellectually honest just to forsake Christianity rather than try to argue that in it's "purest form" it was not "organized religion".
Ihad been without a normal job for such a long time that when this job came along I had to take it. i am working on regular sundays.I am currently looking for a better job as I miss going to church.Dennis
God bless you, I'm praying that you will find a better job so you can attend church. If I stopped going I'm sure that I would end up it missing it also as absence makes the heart grow fonder . . .
Ugh.. I guess Paul and the Apostles established churches with Elders and Deacons for no reason. It was just a waist of time. All that work for nothing. smh
Israel had leadership they had to obey and organization as a religion. New Testament Christianity was designed to have well-established leadership, order, protocol, and organized. I'm sorry if you don't like organized religion, because that's what Biblical Christianity is, organized religion, and it's more intellectually honest just to forsake Christianity rather than try to argue that in it's "purest form" it was not "organized religion".
For those that cannot attend church, for health reasons, in prison, etc. what do they do? Who ministers to them?
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
2 Chronicles 7:14 KJV
He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
Ugh.. I guess Paul and the Apostles established churches with Elders and Deacons for no reason. It was just a waist of time. All that work for nothing. smh
Actually, Paul and the Apostles never established a church. There's only one church established and it wasn't some building folks like to call a 'church'.
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Israel had leadership they had to obey and organization as a religion. New Testament Christianity was designed to have well-established leadership, order, protocol, and organized. I'm sorry if you don't like organized religion, because that's what Biblical Christianity is, organized religion, and it's more intellectually honest just to forsake Christianity rather than try to argue that in it's "purest form" it was not "organized religion".
Of course it was organized. What it wasn't was the multi-billion dollar business with folks serving buildings and looking at a man as some sort of mediator between God and man.
It was and is part of God's purpose for THE church to be a closely-knit community of believers--people who have a relationship with God, relationships with one another and favor with the community. Acts 2:42-47 gives us a good picture of how the early church operated. There was a lot of community and interaction between believers; they weren't independent, autonomous Christians off in a corner of the world somewhere doing their own thing.
There also is room within those local Christian communities for organization and government, and some of those concepts are borne out in Paul's letters to the churches.
So while I do believe you don't need a brick and mortar building to be saved, I do believe it will be a struggle if you have no support system at all. I don't believe God intended for anyone to be alone on their Christian walk.
I do believe it can be a hindrance to salvation if you purposely and consistently reject or eschew fellowship with other Christians. It's essentially a rejection of people that God loves deeply, and a rejection of His pattern for the New Testament Church.
In my opinion, one of the major reasons that the first church was so radically effective was because of how connected they were to each other. When believers become isolated from one another, they lose efficacy. Part of the problem with the modern church is not that it has government or organization, but rather the tendency for assemblies to be cut off from and out of fellowship with other assemblies in the same area. That lack of unity greatly reduces the church's ability to "turn the world upside down."
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"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Actually, Paul and the Apostles never established a church. There's only one church established and it wasn't some building folks like to call a 'church'.
In Acts 2, it says that the early church met daily in a building--the temple. And they met in houses, breaking bread together. This is a semantics game and it hinders discourse. Everyone here knows that THE church is made up of a body of believers. However, everyone also knows that when someone says "go to church" they mean "get together with other Christians." It's fine to use the colloquial term, and when you spend time correcting colloquialisms that don't really matter a hill of beans, you only derail the conversation.
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Of course it was organized. What it wasn't was the multi-billion dollar business with folks serving buildings and looking at a man as some sort of mediator between God and man.
There aren't that many multi-billion dollar mega-churches around, really. Most churches are small assemblies that barely have enough money to maintain their "meeting place." (aka, "church") If I recall data that I read a few years ago, the average assembly has around 70 people. That's a far cry from a multi-billion dollar business.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
Ugh.. I guess Paul and the Apostles established churches with Elders and Deacons for no reason. It was just a waist of time. All that work for nothing. smh
Israel had leadership they had to obey and organization as a religion. New Testament Christianity was designed to have well-established leadership, order, protocol, and organized. I'm sorry if you don't like organized religion, because that's what Biblical Christianity is, organized religion, and it's more intellectually honest just to forsake Christianity rather than try to argue that in it's "purest form" it was not "organized religion".
Great points. The church was "organized". However, the elders functioned as spiritual fathers... not CEO's. They were more like spiritual mentors... not as one saint put it, "little popes".
Essentially, the church is structured and functions like a family in the NT. Not a corporation. Hense the terms: "elder", "mother", "brother", "sister".
This is one of the discoveries I made in my house church adventures.
When I speak of "organized religion"... perhaps I should say... "institutionalized religion".
The church is a FAMILY. Review the requirements for a bishop (elder/overseer/pastor). He must rule his home well with a loving wife and submitted children. If he can't do this... how can he care for the house of God?
I am never comfortable with the "can i be saved, but..." questions...
They always seem to be some attempt to get around something, or to live as close to the edge as possible.
I would say that if you simply cannot be saved attending some regular church, then you need to figure out how you can be saved.
If that means starting some kind of fellowship with like minded believers then you need to get that done. because I do not think a person can remain saved and live a life apart from the body of Christ.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I am never comfortable with the "can i be saved, but..." questions...
They always seem to be some attempt to get around something, or to live as close to the edge as possible.
I would say that if you simply cannot be saved attending some regular church, then you need to figure out how you can be saved.
If that means starting some kind of fellowship with like minded believers then you need to get that done. because I do not think a person can remain saved and live a life apart from the body of Christ.
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