Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by CC1

I have struggled with that thought also. The only time I have ever had to test the water to see what it would be like was a year or so after my wife's back had gotten so bad she could no longer make the 45 minute drive to CC, sit for two hours, then drive back. She began going to the second morning service at a trinitarian charismatic church in our town. I continued to go to CC's early service then would race back to go to church with my wife.

I believe the people at that church were saved and sincere and I was blessed by the preaching and teaching. However I could never get over the fact they baptized in the titles only. I concluded I could not attend there.

Luckily we found another charismatic church that while not "Oneness" had a pastor who believed the correct baptism is in Jesus name so baptized people in the titles and Jesus name (both every baptism, not one or the other). He also was very familiar with Oneness doctrine and in that regard believed as I do about the amount of difference between that and trinitarianism. We attended that church about a year before our pastor released us to go help out in the new church plant our daughter and SIL were attending that had been started by the former Youth Pastor of the local UPC church and that is where we are today.

Interestingly enough my parents, way back in the 1950's, faced this dilemma. They were UPC but moved to an isolated town where there was no Oneness church. They attended a Church of God church and my mom even taught SS. They met with the pastor and told him the situation and when my mom became a teacher she told the pastor she would not teach the trinity when those lessons came around and he was fine with that. A few years later my parents helped found the UPC church in that town that is still there today.

We have always been up front about where we came from. The Assemblies and UPC are related by marriage, but they never questioned my view of the Godhead, my baptism or my Salvation and they did not tell us that we must go through a special bible study about the Godhead or be baptized again.

The only one who had the issue was my old UPC pastor we talked awhile after we left and he asked me where we were going to church and we told him the Assemblies and all he could say was "why the Assemblies"

My attitude changed allot when we started in the Assemblies after we left. God would shake and bake at those churches with a thick tangible presence that was just so sweet.

I could close my eyes and I could not tell the difference between the churches except for the sweetness of the Spirit.

It started me thinking if God could move on these people who don't know the truth about the Godhead and Baptism then maybe I need to readjust my view and keep first things first. He is not a God of confusion.

So I guess I said all that to say this. I have to have a Spirit filled church where the Spirit has the permission to move. So if those were my only 2 choices I would be holding fellowship in my living room with anybody that wanted to come and worship the One true living God.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Sad to say not everyone loves truth. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I am told.

I agree that not everyone loves the truth. What is the alternative to loving the truth? Loving your sin (John 3:19). your definition of those who love the truth, are those who believe exactly like you, my definition of those who love the truth, are those who truly love the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Truth, your doctrinal system contains elements of truth, but is not the truth.

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Some believed in Jesus and others crucified Him. Some believed in the Apostles others stoned and beheaded them. And it has not changed.

Amen. But your categorizing everyone who doesn't believe exactly what you believe as people who don't love the truth, and now implying that they are of the same ilk as those who crucified the Lord and beheaded the disciples. Not because their deeds are EVIL, but because you disagree with their theology. I don't know if your a KJV only guy, perhaps you've never read this verse in another version:

"When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, your lives will produce these evil results; sexual immorality, impure thoughts, eagerness for lustful pleasure, idolatry, participation in demonic activities, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, divisions, the feeling that everyone is wrong except those in your own little group, (Galatians 5:19-20, NLT, 1st edition)"

38 John said to Jesus, “Teacher, we saw someone using your name to cast out demons, but we told him to stop because he wasn’t in our group.”
39 “Don’t stop him!” Jesus said. “No one who performs a miracle in my name will soon be able to speak evil of me.40 Anyone who is not against us is for us.
Mark 9:38-40 (NLT)

10 I appeal to you, dear brothers and sisters, by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, to live in harmony with each other. Let there be no divisions in the church. Rather, be of one mind, united in thought and purpose.11 For some members of Chloe’s household have told me about your quarrels, my dear brothers and sisters.12 Some of you are saying, “I am a follower of Paul.” Others are saying, “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Peter, ” or “I follow only Christ.” 1 Cor 1:10-12 (NLT)

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I have bought the truth and I am not going to sell it. My seat is not for sale. I am happy with the Lord and His church. I realized years ago I would never understand folks not loving truth because truth has been good to me. Now 51 years in the church and I am not tired yet. Love His message-methods-lifestyle. No complaint from me. If I lose my mind and leave the church it will not in any way diminish the church it was going great when I got in 51 years ago and if I leave tomorrow the message or lifestyle will not change. I will be the loser not the church.

I'm glad you feel that way. Many OPs feel that way because they are scared. I honestly believe that you are scared of turning away from your belief system, because you equate that to turning away from Christ. I don't want you to turn away from it, I'm just trying to emphasize that there are people who don't see things the way you do who still follow Christ, and you're out of bounds to judge them, especailly since you cannot show them their error from the Word of God.

Save your breath if you say you don't judge, you of the infamous "all trinitarians are lost!!!!" thread.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by CC1

Week 2 - Good weather & grilling wins out over the UPC church visit!!!!

Not quite what I said or meant.

CC1 have you considered putting in an application at MSNBC?

[jen4yeshua]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

We have always been up front about where we came from. The Assemblies and UPC are related by marriage, but they never questioned my view of the Godhead, my baptism or my Salvation and they did not tell us that we must go through a special bible study about the Godhead or be baptized again.

The only one who had the issue was my old UPC pastor we talked awhile after we left and he asked me where we were going to church and we told him the Assemblies and all he could say was "why the Assemblies"

My attitude changed allot when we started in the Assemblies after we left. God would shake and bake at those churches with a thick tangible presence that was just so sweet.

I could close my eyes and I could not tell the difference between the churches except for the sweetness of the Spirit.

It started me thinking if God could move on these people who don't know the truth about the Godhead and Baptism then maybe I need to readjust my view and keep first things first. He is not a God of confusion.

So I guess I said all that to say this. I have to have a Spirit filled church where the Spirit has the permission to move. So if those were my only 2 choices I would be holding fellowship in my living room with anybody that wanted to come and worship the One true living God.

[jen4yeshua]

Originally Posted by CC1

I have struggled with that thought also. The only time I have ever had to test the water to see what it would be like was a year or so after my wife's back had gotten so bad she could no longer make the 45 minute drive to CC, sit for two hours, then drive back. She began going to the second morning service at a trinitarian charismatic church in our town. I continued to go to CC's early service then would race back to go to church with my wife.

I believe the people at that church were saved and sincere and I was blessed by the preaching and teaching. However I could never get over the fact they baptized in the titles only. I concluded I could not attend there.

Luckily we found another charismatic church that while not "Oneness" had a pastor who believed the correct baptism is in Jesus name so baptized people in the titles and Jesus name (both every baptism, not one or the other). He also was very familiar with Oneness doctrine and in that regard believed as I do about the amount of difference between that and trinitarianism. We attended that church about a year before our pastor released us to go help out in the new church plant our daughter and SIL were attending that had been started by the former Youth Pastor of the local UPC church where we are today.

Interestingly enough my parents, way back in the 1950's, faced this dilemma. They were UPC but moved to an isolated town where there was no Oneness church. They attended a Church of God church and my mom even taught SS. They met with the pastor and told him the situation and when my mom became a teacher she told the pastor she would not teach the trinity when those lessons came around and he was fine with that. A few years later my parents helped found the UPC church in that town that is still there today.

CC1, I am not a long-time regular on this forum, so I don't know the background to this comment, but I wonder what organisation / doctrinal affiliation the CC church is that you are referring to. My family have recently started attending a UPC church again after a couple of years in other churches, and whilst we don't agree with everything that the organisation teaches or expects of its members, we haven't found any other churches that are compatible with what we believe. We don't have non-UPC oneness churches here as far as I can tell, and all the ministers I know of who have left the organisation have eventually affiliated with the ACC (the Australian name for the AOG).

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by jen4yeshua

CC1, I am not a long-time regular on this forum, so I don't know the background to this comment, but I wonder what organisation / doctrinal affiliation the CC church is that you are referring to. My family have recently started attending a UPC church again after a couple of years in other churches, and whilst we don't agree with everything that the organisation teaches or expects of its members, we haven't found any other churches that are compatible with what we believe. We don't have non-UPC oneness churches here as far as I can tell, and all the ministers I know of who have left the organisation have eventually affiliated with the ACC (the Australian name for the AOG).

Jen that is funny I have met quite a few former UPC Pastors who are now AOG.

[jen4yeshua]

Originally Posted by navygoat1998

Jen that is funny I have met quite a few former UPC Pastors who are now AOG.

I can see why they do They get support, financial as well as mentoring, church growth leadership training and they get to be seen as regular folk instead of "those oneness people"... It's just not a right fit for us...

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by jen4yeshua

I can see why they do They get support, financial as well as mentoring, church growth leadership training and they get to be seen as regular folk instead of "those oneness people"... It's just not a right fit for us...

We have to get in where we fit in!

[houston]

Originally Posted by jen4yeshua

I can see why they do They get support, financial as well as mentoring, church growth leadership training and they get to be seen as regular folk instead of "those oneness people"... It's just not a right fit for us...

They offer all that?

Think I'll stop by the district office that is down the hwy.

[jen4yeshua]

Go for it! Tell them I sent ya'...