You give some people a 2nd chance and. . . .

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I will say I believe in Divine healing. I have been healed more than once. My Mother was a woman of great faith, but she never endangered her children.

Cindy, I don't think anybody on here is saying that God does not heal. I have been healed myself as a child with a stomach issue that was going to require exploratory surgery (they didn't have MRI's and CAT scans in those days).

However believing that God and does heal does not change anything that has been written here about those parents allowing two children to die.

Show me in the bible where God prohibits people going to a doctor? Believing that one should ONLY trust in God for getting better when sick is akin, in my mind, to those people who don't work, save money, use good stewardship of their money, etc because they believe God will take care of them. God expects us to do our part in taking care of ourself and those we are responsible for.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I will say I believe in Divine healing. I have been healed more than once. My Mother was a woman of great faith, but she never endangered her children.

So what do you feel should be in this and similar situations?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

An adult is free to let themselves die without medical care. It is a different case altogether when children who are too young to make that decision for themselves are involved.

We are not talking about them believing God for healing of a toothache and it not happening but the kid gets better. We are talking about a small child whose health was clearly deteriorating day by day to the point of death. The second child they have let die I might add.

I hope they get jail time and lose custody of the remaining children.

I hope you get jailed for your beliefs too.

No, not really.

Seriously, this is a matter of belief. Unless they are beating their children and abusing them, I can't judge them for this.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

The satanic attack that was successful was their decision not to go down the path that would've provided an insulin shot to their child.

Jesus worked many miracles that did not need any medical help and the same goes for the apostles. However, when Jesus spoke in defense of miracles on the Sabbath; for an example he asked what man would not help to get his oxen free from being stuck in a ditch on the Sabbath (my paraphrase). I cannot help but note that he did not say do not help the oxen get out of the ditch, but only pray that God will free the oxen from the ditch.

I have seen miracles that were not only unassisted by any medical help but also overcame what professional medicine could not do for people. However, when it comes to denying medical help we certainly have the right to do so to ourselves. In other words someone diagnosed with cancer has every right to refuse medical help and be willing to die if God does not intervene.

What right society has to say when the faith of a sick child's parents has run its course, and it is time for society to intervene with medical help even when it is against the wishes of the parents is going to be a long argument.

If we allow parents to have the right of decision over life and death concerning abortions it seems to me only fair to give them the same rights over living children. On the other hand if you want to take away the right of the parents to have sole dominion over the care for their children, then you should offer the same protection to the unborn.

Just my $.02 worth

I would go a step further and say it is different to kill your children outright than believe that medical care is wrong.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by CC1

Show me in the bible where God prohibits people going to a doctor? Believing that one should ONLY trust in God for getting better when sick is akin, in my mind, to those people who don't work, save money, use good stewardship of their money, etc because they believe God will take care of them. God expects us to do our part in taking care of ourself and those we are responsible for.

I don't think anybody here thinks that God prohibits doctors, but obviously, those parents did.

[Digging4Truth]

The thing that people never seem to be able to see is where these things always... always... lead.

With continuing "progress" in the areas of DNA etc the time will eventually come when they will be able to tell what markers you have in your DNA for certain future ailments. Someday someone will be jailed because they didn't have their childs DNA tested and the child ended up dieing of some ailment that a test of DNA markers would have revealed.

We are already seeing people being threatened with losing their kids if they don't administer ADD/ADHD drugs to them. I am firmly against those drugs but if some teacher decided my kids was hyper I could be demanded to have them tested and if the doc decides they need psychotropic drugs... as a parent... I have no recourse but to give them the drugs or have my kids taken away from me.

If people do not believe in taking drugs then they should NOT be legally bound to do so. Societal opinion all too often trumps personal beliefs and parental authority.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

The thing that people never seem to be able to see is where these things always... always... lead.

With continuing "progress" in the areas of DNA etc the time will eventually come when they will be able to tell what markers you have in your DNA for certain future ailments. Someday someone will be jailed because they didn't have their childs DNA tested and the child ended up dieing of some ailment that a test of DNA markers would have revealed.

We are already seeing people being threatened with losing their kids if they don't administer ADD/ADHD drugs to them. I am firmly against those drugs but if some teacher decided my kids was hyper I could be demanded to have them tested and if the doc decides they need psychotropic drugs... as a parent... I have no recourse but to give them the drugs or have my kids taken away from me.

If people do not believe in taking drugs then they should NOT be legally bound to do so. Societal opinion all too often trumps personal beliefs and parental authority.

Yes, I agree with this. I mean, do we ultimately trust that God knew what these people believed and do we ultimately believe that God decided when this child's (children's) life would end? Did he decide or did they.

Let me ask you another question. How many thousands upon thousands of people die every year taking prescriptions AS PRESCRIBED? They choose. Their doctors choose. Ultimately, we trust God.

We cannot say that medical intervention is God's will every time and demand others follow our beliefs. That's just wrong.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

The satanic attack that was successful was their decision not to go down the path that would've provided an insulin shot to their child.

Jesus worked many miracles that did not need any medical help and the same goes for the apostles. However, when Jesus spoke in defense of miracles on the Sabbath; for an example he asked what man would not help to get his oxen free from being stuck in a ditch on the Sabbath (my paraphrase). I cannot help but note that he did not say do not help the oxen get out of the ditch, but only pray that God will free the oxen from the ditch.

I have seen miracles that were not only unassisted by any medical help but also overcame what professional medicine could not do for people. However, when it comes to denying medical help we certainly have the right to do so to ourselves. In other words someone diagnosed with cancer has every right to refuse medical help and be willing to die if God does not intervene.

What right society has to say when the faith of a sick child's parents has run its course, and it is time for society to intervene with medical help even when it is against the wishes of the parents is going to be a long argument.

If we allow parents to have the right of decision over life and death concerning abortions it seems to me only fair to give them the same rights over living children. On the other hand if you want to take away the right of the parents to have sole dominion over the care for their children, then you should offer the same protection to the unborn.

Just my $.02 worth

That's a pretty profound statement right there.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes, I agree with this. I mean, do we ultimately trust that God knew what these people believed and do we ultimately believe that God decided when this child's (children's) life would end? Did he decide or did they.

Let me ask you another question. How many thousands upon thousands of people die every year taking prescriptions AS PRESCRIBED? They choose. Their doctors choose. Ultimately, we trust God.

We cannot say that medical intervention is God's will every time and demand others follow our beliefs. That's just wrong.

Excellent post.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by randywayne

love this!!!!