RDP

[n david]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I had to do a little thinking and a lot of praying on why I have been so negatively affected by your posts and here are some of my conclusions:

You represent everything I ever hated about a movement I am as quickly distancing myself from as possible. While I do not know you personally, I feel like I have met you 100 times, in the preachers who say hateful things over pulpits everywhere. Who laugh at those who 'only got wet' at their baptisms, who gleefully talk about all who will burn forever in tormenting hell for some small mistake they do not even know they are making, who leave people confused and unable to ever trust in God. The preacher who I watched have a man crawl around the platform begging God to save him, while so many of us sat sickened but feeling powerless to stop it. The preacher who bragged from the pulpit about how he refused to pray with a dying saint in the hospital because someone had turned the television on in her room, even though she pleaded with him to pray because she had been conditioned to believe that she could be neither saved nor healed without his prayers.

Yes, you epitomize the controlling pastor I've saw tell people to give up their vacations and give the money to building fund while he took his family to the holy-land for 2 weeks in an all expense paid vacation given to him by the church membership. The pastors who can not even live in the neighborhoods where their churches are because there simply are not big enough Mc Mansions for them. The ones who dress down their congregations for the tiniest infractions of their dress codes and are later found sleeping with the church secretary or molesting girls from the youth.

You hide behind anonymity here and spout your self-righteousness, show disdain and disapproval for others, make pronouncements about the status of others salvation and it disturbs the heck out of me. Because while you, on your own, would be nothing more than a good laugh to me, you do these things in a place where many of the people have a lifetime of abuse by horrible pseudo-preachers like yourself behind them. They are sensitized to it, and you add to their burdens and make them feel that they have to defend their most basic human right, to worship God in their own way. You make them question whatever progress they have made toward healing, you open old scars and salt healing wounds.

And worst of all... YOU DO IT SIMPLY FOR SPORT.

No, I am not a victim. I am a survivor... And you RDP... are a monster.

Ephesians 4:31-32 NLT

Get rid of all bitterness, rage, anger, harsh words, and slander, as well as all types of evil behavior. Instead, be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.

T2W, whatever happened to you in the past, you have to let it go. The post above is nothing but bitterness lashing out. That bitterness is consuming you.

Get over it. Forgive. Move forward.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I sense a lot of love on this thread.Too bad the fruit of The Spirit can't be manifested on a computer screen.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by n david

T2W, whatever happened to you in the past, you have to let it go. The post above is nothing but bitterness lashing out. That bitterness is consuming you.

Get over it. Forgive. Move forward.

I agree and that not said to condemn. I had something happen to me and my family a couple of years ago and we really had to pray to get over what had been done to us by so called saints and a preacher.

Bitterness can consume you and kill .

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

(Note, the "you" in this post is a generalization in most uses)

Oh the "bitter" pill, how unpredictable. Listen T2W may be bitter I don't know, but I think it is sickening and manifests hearts of hirelings who do not really love people, the way that some OP preachers live lives of hypocrisy as she detailed in her post above, and everyone else is expected to just "line up". And when the hypocricy is exposed the saints are told "he's just a man", but when the same man is pontificating about standards and damning everyone who doesn't see it his way to hell, then he's anointed and the mouthpiece of God. The people are to submit to his authority on their lives. Some (not all) will not even lay a finger on the heavy burdens they lay on others, but that is generally the way man made religion works.

You guys talk about standards and tongues and baptosm, but not grace, love, mercy. You are the classic example of neglecting the weightier matters of the law as the pharisees did. You are filled with love, but only love for those who see it like you do. What do you guys do differently from the world? Your love towards others is conditional based on their religious profession, outward appearence, or at best prospects of becoming a proselyte to your church. Once you know one got away, love turns to hatred, and its attack mode, not healing or reconciliation. There are OP preachers who are nothing but hirelings. They don't really care for the sheep, they care for themselves. When the sheep stray (in their eyes) the don't find them and throw them over their shoulders, they beat them, and wound them. I know you guys know about religion, but I wonder if you know Jesus. You claim to be the only ones who are saved and have His Spirit living inside, yet manifest the exact opposite attititude of the one who loved all of us while we were yet sinners, who wills for none to perish, but all to come to repentance, who weeps for the lost, who looks for a reason to save people, not searches for a reason or technicality to ........ them. There is a lot of talk about Christlikeness, but talk is cheap, where is the walk, that's why the world is put out with churches.

But you guys can't understand this. You don't understand that not everyone who leaves is bitter. Some see through the hypocrisy, some simply don't believe the doctrine or the standards. Just because someone leave doesn't make them bitter.

Personally I left because I am convinced of justification by faith as being the point of salvation. That doesn't mean I don't think the repentant sinner doesn't need to be baptized. If the repntant sinner who is justified by his faith doesn't want to be baptized, that is a good indication he may not have sincerely repented and thus may not be justified. Ultimately only God knows the sincerity and genuinenss of the heart, and so the knowledge of salvation rests with Him. I left because of that, the unbiblical initial evidence doctrine, the standards being preached as legalism, the mindset that the devil is around every corner trying to take you down, the abusive doctrine of tithing, and seeing the way that others who left were treated. To name a few reasons.

Despite those things, most people (not all) were decent to me in real life, except for a few preachers). Most of the hatred and real ugliness came from preachers on the internet, especially APF (apostolic preachers forum). But I'm not bitter about a bunch of guys who don't know me, pffft the internet is what it is. It showed their true colors and the way they talk in closed forums when the saints aren't around, but despite that I know there are plenty of good OP preachers who don't have that hatred. And despite all that if something doesn't work out where I am now I haven't completely closed the door on the OP church. But one thing is for sure, if I ever go back it wil be to a moderate church, with a pastor who loves people.

I'll never go back into the kind of environment T2W described. And to her point I can see why she can make the connection between some posters in this thread and those old memories and mentality. Personally I'm not bitter, just glad I didn't continue on like that. Because I was just as dogmatic, judmental, and mean as anyone on this thread has been. I knew I was saved, and I knew who wasn't, and would proclaim it. One example was once I was asked about Joyce Meyer, I said "that's easy she's going to hell" (or something to that effect, maybe not quite as blunt). The shocked person asked "why?" I said because she has short hair and wears earrings". Yes that was enough to burn in hell forever. Yes I was holier than thou. Like Paul said, a pharisee of 5he pharisees. I was probably more zealous for the standards and kept them more to the letter than these posters. I lined up on everything. I was the posterboy for pentecost, until my eyes were open to who Christ really was. Oh sure I knew Christ, he had saved me. I knew He was the manifestation of the one God. But I failed to understand how he loved, how he lived, and what being like Christ really meant. I still desire to know Him more, but despite the insults, despite being called bitter, and heritic, and so much worse, I keep walking with my Lord. He is not the accuser of the bretheren, He bid me to follow Him, and no man will get in my way.

I preach far more on grace, mercy and love than I ever do standards. THANK YOU.

I continualy reach for the lost, to the point I gave up agood job to go start a church where there was no church and our family live in near opverty because of this, but we love souls.

You know nothing about me so get off you high horse.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Every time I get a case of heartburn I feel some bitterness.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I had to do a little thinking and a lot of praying on why I have been so negatively affected by your posts and here are some of my conclusions:

You represent everything I ever hated about a movement I am as quickly distancing myself from as possible. While I do not know you personally, I feel like I have met you 100 times, in the preachers who say hateful things over pulpits everywhere. Who laugh at those who 'only got wet' at their baptisms, who gleefully talk about all who will burn forever in tormenting hell for some small mistake they do not even know they are making, who leave people confused and unable to ever trust in God.

First, if one is not water baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ their sins are not forgiven or washed away. It is very-very-very clear that you do not understand these basic soteriological truths (neither does Jason Badejo & I plan to expose this in him when I get some time) & you are leaving "because you were not of us" in the first place.

Second, there is a difference in being excited because you know the truth & being excited because others do not. I rejoice in the former & weep for the latter (& have done so until I could not walk straight afterwards). You are confusing the two.

Third, I do not know of one-single truly Apostolic preacher who "gleefully talks about people burning in Hell" over anything......& I know more than I could ever count (& Elder Epley is God's go-to man for info. on who is who in Apostolic Pentecost ). Are there some who exist? I suppose so, but I do not fellowship them.....& you could probably hold their "conferences" in a phone-booth!

You are simply swatting at your own shadows in an effort to sustain your own vindictive demeanor. Funny thing is, when supposedly took some personal inventory....Geeee, what happens? Why, the problem was with others & not yourself....Woo-Hoo!.....You get a free-pass again ! Imagine that.



The preacher who I watched have a man crawl around the platform begging God to save him, while so many of us sat sickened but feeling powerless to stop it. The preacher who bragged from the pulpit about how he refused to pray with a dying saint in the hospital because someone had turned the television on in her room, even though she pleaded with him to pray because she had been conditioned to believe that she could be neither saved nor healed without his prayers.

Television is horrid & no Christian should have one in their home....Period (& pls. spare me the silly "Internet is worse" argument). If I have explain the evils of T.V. to you, no wonder you are where you are today (spiritually). However, personally, I would certainly pray for a "saint" who had a T.V. on in a hospital (& did so recently) & allow the grace & love of God to convict their hearts....& YES, I would teach about the evils of it when I felt the time was right.

I have known of men who do things such as you state above (having a man crawl on platform)....& you know what? I think such a preacher is just as backslid as you are! I do not fellowship these types & when I learn of them through eyewitnesses I goad them for it when I get an opportunity (on-line or personally). They are in sin & need soundly rebuking. I am just as hard on this type of stupidity as I am on Ultra-Libs....& do not care if they know it either.



Yes, you epitomize the controlling pastor I've saw tell people to give up their vacations and give the money to building fund while he took his family to the holy-land for 2 weeks in an all expense paid vacation given to him by the church membership. The pastors who can not even live in the neighborhoods where their churches are because there simply are not big enough Mc Mansions for them. The ones who dress down their congregations for the tiniest infractions of their dress codes and are later found sleeping with the church secretary or molesting girls from the youth.

Oh yes, I am the "epitome of a child molestor," "dress down my congregation," all the while I live the "life of Riley" ?

Let's see if the above characterizations apply to me.....Are you ready (remember, you asked for this)? I walked away from an Assistant position of a church running approximately between 150 people (& the pastor is getting up in age with health problems), was financially sound, owned my own business, etc. to attempt to plant a church where there was virtually no Apostolic witness of any type in the immediate area.

There have been many-many-many times we have literally survived on peanut-butter sandwiches for lunch & ramen noodles, while we go to church & stare at 2 families who wanted us to come, but pay their tithes when they feel like it & have NEVER put even $5 in the offering plate (I don't think they've even put $1). I have taken in people whom I knew were trouble because I wanted to try & salvage their soul through loving them & teaching/preaching to them (& what do you think they did?). When others were running them off, I was taking them in in order to try & help them.

I have worn the same two Wal-Mart suits for approximately 6 years now & when I go on vacation, I shoulder the load myself & usually take someone else with me & pay much of their way (as I did in January). We are renting a church building for $750/Mo. in addition to having our own personal bills (rent, car notes, etc.)....All so there can be biblical truth in a town with essentially no witness.

I am a volunteer chaplain at the local hospital, have helped tornado victims on their homes, gave money we did not have to homeless, broke personal records fasting for this city, knocked doors, ministered in prisons, nursing homes, taught home Bible studies, went to drug-infested areas to reach for them, etc. I am not boasting inasmuch as I really do not feel I have done enough...Because we are still looking at a sparse crowd.


Very recently walked away from another pastorate wherein my wife & I could have lived in a 3 bedroom, 2 bth. parsonage with no rent & could have been full-time w/out having to hold a secular job. The church building was paid for, a new church-van paid for & we had a decent number of folks to work with in an ABSOLUTELY BREATH-TAKING BEAUTIFUL MOUNTAIN TOWN!!

O' yes, my flesh wanted to remain there forever....But I resigned, because I did not feel I had given the other town a good enough effort to establish a church & my conscience would have haunted me forever (I was actually pastoring two churches at the time). And, in about an hour, I am heading to a part-time job that I assumed so I can work with more people in the community & hopefully lead some one to the truth.


And, tomorrow, I plan on beating any visitor who may show up !

You are a very foolish woman.



You hide behind anonymity here and spout your self-righteousness, show disdain and disapproval for others, make pronouncements about the status of others salvation and it disturbs the heck out of me. Because while you, on your own, would be nothing more than a good laugh to me, you do these things in a place where many of the people have a lifetime of abuse by horrible pseudo-preachers like yourself behind them. They are sensitized to it, and you add to their burdens and make them feel that they have to defend their most basic human right, to worship God in their own way. You make them question whatever progress they have made toward healing, you open old scars and salt healing wounds.



Yes, "horrible pseudo-preachers like myself" who, when he resigned the church he pastored in the deep south several years ago overheard the piano player weeping in the bathroom on my last day....& there wasn't hardly a dry-eye in the building. Oh, BTW, that's the church I took that had a "for sale" sign on it with three people & was in deplorable condition.

When I left, the building was completely remodeled, roses were (& still are) planted on the lawn, a new, beautiful lighted sign out front, & were running close to 25 people....Many of whom are still there today & would love for me to come back (long story). Again, I am not boasting in any way because I honestly do not feel like I have done enough.

The "old scars" are begotten from your rebellious-stubborn heart....& I would loveeeeee to talk to your previous pastor(s) & see what info. they might could share with us about you! I am quite sure, based upon your postings on here, the other side of the coin is quite enlightening !


And worst of all... YOU DO IT SIMPLY FOR SPORT.


Oh yes, here, let me run....I've got some Kool-Aid to make for tomorrow !


No, I am not a victim. I am a survivor... And you RDP... are a monster.

Hmmm, you just finished rambling incessantly about how you were so hurt by those mean ol' pastors (who are not here to defend themselves & I am 110% CERTAIN they would have quite another story)....But, you're "not a victim" ?

You are merely a loose-canon seeking to justify your hatred toward righteous living by playing the tired-worn-out "victim" card.

Well, let me run.....Gotta' get fitted for my dress & purse (check back in later tonight) !

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Whole Hearted

I preach far more on grace, mercy and love than I ever do standards. THANK YOU.

I continualy reach for the lost, to the point I gave up agood job to go start a church where there was no church and our family live in near opverty because of this, but we love souls.

You know nothing about me so get off you high horse.

Admittedly I know nothing about you, exept the miniscule interaction we've had on AFF. Perhaps you missed the first line in my post:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

(Note, the "you" in this post is a generalization in most uses)

All I can do is peak from my experiences. It is also my experience that the typical reaction by OP preachers to over react and claim they preach on grace way more than standards. Perhaps you're an exception, I don't know.

I know in years and hundreds, if not thousands, of service, camp meetings, conferences, etc. I rarely heard grace even mentioned, and cannot recall even one single time I heard a message about grace, mercy, or justification. I rarely heard the love of God expounded on (though we did sing the hymn "The Love of God" which was probably the most "teaching" I ever heard on the topic from that standpoint, i.e. divorced from my performance or lining up with standards) and I did hear a fair amount about love for people. BUT the love for people was always in the context of evangelism, and saving the lost. An admirable reason indeed, but shallow when it stands on its own. Love was never preached in the context of loving our fellow human being because they are made in the image of God, because they all have intrinsic value and self worth. People are worth loving just for the simple fact that Christ loved them, and died for all of them. There wasnt a child molestor, a homosexual, a murderer, a thief, a heretic, a dictator, a tyrant, that Jesus didn't shed his blood for so that they could have the oppertunity to repent. I'm not saying it is always easy to love those people, but thats what true love is in the Christian context, it goes beyond evangelism and sacrifice, it is a love as much like God's love as is humanly possible.

If you live in near poverty levels to preach the gospel, more power to you. No doubt there has been alot of sacrifice by OPs to spread the word. But so it is with Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc. Alot of OPs are all about evangelism, thats not in question. What is in question is the love of those same people for those who are not propsective converts.

My experience is that as long as your part of the club your accepted. It doesn't even matter if privately you don't agree, as long as publically you toe the line. But once you publically disagree, then all those who professed their love and loyalty, turn on you, and seek to destroy you. Over sleeve lengths, dress codes, and a hundred things more not specifically addressed in the Bible. Thats why I said in the other post, theirs is a love lke the world. Its like the Democrats or Rebuplicans. They love their own, but what happens when one switches to the other party, all the love shrivels up and is replaced with venom. Thats the kind of love I associated with pentecostalism. Its a love as good as gold if you line up, but if you don't........

[Jason B]

PS-RDP

I've met all the qualifications of your soteriological hoops. Been there, done that, preached that, got the t-shirt and used to have the bumper sticker.

[Jason B]

Post #276. Thanks for reminding me again why I would want to stay as far away from your church as possible.

Congratulations on all your good works. If you weren't so mean spirited with your posting, you wouldn't have to tell us all how great a guy you really are. Kudos on breaking the fasting record.

Luke 18:9 And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

(But on the other hand, there are those hated publicans.....)

13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18:9-14 (KJV)

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by rdp

Hmmm, you just finished rambling incessantly about how you were so hurt by those mean ol' pastors ....
You are merely a loose-canon seeking to justify your hatred toward righteous living by playing the tired-worn-out "victim" card.....!

Hmmmm, you just got through proving how much you loved people, only to follow that dissertation by going right back to your insulting and condencensding attitude. And top it all of by smiling emoticons.

And you say your not happy when someone is lost. In your eyes both myself and Titus2Woman are lost, and are concerned? Are you distraught, no you sport and prod and poke and post smiling emoticons.

I can very much see why she says what she said. I've been in plenty of church service where the preacher starts talking about people being lost, not keeping the standards, going to hell, and get rousing ovations and shouts of amen. Hanky's waving, people running the aisle. You act like this doesn't happen? Are you even pentecostal? This happened ALL THE TIME.