The Good News Cafe Forum

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I went through hell to become a christian.

I can't comprehend how 'personal attacks' or 'mean people' could cause a person to lose faith in God.

Maybe it's just me? But God brought me out some SERIOUS darkness and 'tribulation'. My faith never did and never will depend on anyone's actions or lack thereof.

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I have had my faith waiver on many things (people, church, etc), but never God Himself. Though admittedly, if I had gone two decades without having prayer answered as OEFM says I may have a different perspective. I don't want to pile on him.

There but by the grace of God go I.

Originally Posted by CC1

I did not come out of some SERIOUS darkness and "tribulation" as I ws raised in church and a good Christian home but I also can't comprehend how personal attacks or mean people could cause a person to lose faith in God.

Reminds me of how lame I thought it was when I read upon Steve Jobs death that he stopped being a Christian because he could not reconcile the pain and suffering in the world with God. Amazing that someone that smart could be that shallow. There are plenty of folks who could have explained that to him if he had reached out or even done a cursory search on the internet.

I think many times people use outward things as an excuse for an inward issue.

I go to church with a woman who lost her son in Iraq where he served as a Army medic. She has very tough days but the vast majority of the time keeps it all in perspective and always loves God and leans on him for strength in her weakness. I will put her grief up against "mean people" and "personal attacks" any day. The bottom line is that if one lets God's Spirit be the Comforter he said he would be then no matter what comes against us we can find the strength to handle it. It is when we stop turning to God for that strength and look to ourselves that we get bitter and turn against relationship with God.

I will say this....for myself....when I walked away from Christianity (I don't really think of it as walking away as much as putting it all on hold for future closer analysis). I had gotten to a place in my spiritual life, where I realized that either God was a cruel and capricious deity who I had no interest in serving, or that what I had been shown of God, was not an accurate portrayal of his character. (The third choice, of him not existing at all didn't occur to me until later).

So I can understand how experiences in your life can cause you to question, or even firmly decide that god cannot be real. (I've found faith to be a very fragile thing)

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

I will say this....for myself....when I walked away from Christianity (I don't really think of it as walking away as much as putting it all on hold for future closer analysis). I had gotten to a place in my spiritual life, where I realized that either God was a cruel and capricious deity who I had no interest in serving, or that what I had been shown of God, was not an accurate portrayal of his character. (The third choice, of him not existing at all didn't occur to me until later).

So I can understand how experiences in your life can cause you to question, or even firmly decide that god cannot be real. (I've found faith to be a very fragile thing)

I'm kind of there now. Over the past couple of decades I have found that some of the people I meet who say they are 'Christian' are nothing like I believe Jesus was or will be at His return. Many are some of the meanest folks I've ever met... and some of the very, very worst are 'preachers of the gospel'... The god they present is sneaky, mean, hateful, petty, and vindictive. He certainly is not loving or accepting and I wouldn't even want to know someone with those attributes let alone worship them.

I've just gotta tell you... I am about done with THAT god. So if he is the real and true and one and ony god... Well... I'm about to be serving some other God... Because even with the threat of eternal, burning, tortured hell in the future I can not love a God like that... I just can't.

[webe123]

Well, I feel sorry for ANYONE who blames God because of the way some people act!

Sure there are people who claim something and do something else, there are also people who really TRY to serve God. They are not perfect if that is what you are looking for(But let me ask those that are judging them a question..are YOU PERFECT?) , but there are those that are doing the best they can! Not everyone may be living for God like they should....but not everyone is a hypocryte either. That is clearly wrong thinking also.

To judge a whole group of people by the actions of a minority, is wrong! My pastor called it a cop out. It seems these people try to ignore the people in a church that TRY to live for God and have the right attitude and only focus on the ones that do not live for God like they should.

Now that does not mean the ones not living for God are right, but are the people playing judge and jury any better? I don't THINK SO!

I think a lot of people get hurt in churches and choose not to believe in anything...simply because they got hurt but think they cannot get hurt if the don't believe anymore in anything, but that someone who has hurt them so, is NOT GOD and them not believing in him will not make them experience any less hurt! That is just a fact!

Also, simply dis-believing God exsists does not make God any less real. He IS REAL! And you can count on that!

But it seems to be a form of protection for some. The theory is....How can you be hurt if you don't believe in anything at all? But that will not stop the hurts and heartaches from coming. Every life has a form of pain in it. The Bible says he causes it to rain on the just and unjust.

Think about that before you go writing off a whole group of people based on the actions of some that are not right.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I'm kind of there now.

Don't follow people follow God as fleshed out in the principles of the Bible and the life of Christ.

We do not war against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.

When mankind fell for Satan's lies his heart became deceitful and wicked. God could have stamped us out then and started anew.

Instead he promised a redeemer who would create a new heart. And the stories of the Old covenant are the stories of God bringing His promises to pass. All the law and the prophets rest on two commandments, Love God and love your neighbor. To follow the covenant brought blessing, to break God's laws brought destruction

There were some peoples who were so wicked, debased, evil, and given over to Satan, that their very existance represented a threat to the human race, and the promise of redemption. They worshipped the stars of the heaven, the rocks and the trees, did immoral acts in honor to their gods who were no Gods, even offering their children as sacrifices. God judged them and destroyed them so that they would not polute the whole earth with their wickedness.

He delivered a people from slavery and opppression and led them through the dessert to a land flowing with milk and honey. He led them in Holy war to destroy those who were debased and wicked and planted them in the land of promise.

Even His precious chosen ones turned their back on Him as a nation and went whoring after the gods of the land, burning their children in the fire, breaking every commandment of the covenant.

His precious wife who He had married, and bore on the wings of eagles, desiring to meet her every need, commited whoredoms and adulteries like a dog in heat, she debased herself again and again.

Yet he still preserved a remnant and a seed of promise.

When the time came, the warrior God of the dessert looked through the eyes of flesh at his sweet mother's face. The precious babe Mary held in her arms was the promise that had been given from the foundation of the world.

He fleshed out what it truly means to love God and love your neighbor. His desire for the church stayed His course towards calvary so that with His death, and resurection, He could redeem her with His own blood. He is saying come and follow me and I will give you life, and that more abundantly.

Why are you looking at man and not looking at the author and finisher of your faith? we are all in a battle for our souls and the souls of our loved ones, and that of the whole world. Precious loved ones, do not turn back in the day of battle, but finish the course, keep the faith. He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

Lift you eyes higher than mankind, return and seek him. He is easy to find, In Him we live and move and have our being.

---------------------

Those of you who are ministers of Christ, what do you love more, the precious souls that Christ died for, or winning an argument on the internet?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don't follow people follow God as fleshed out in the principles of the Bible and the life of Christ.

We do not war against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.

When mankind fell for Satan's lies his heart became deceitful and wicked. God could have stamped us out then and started anew.

Instead he promised a redeemer who would create a new heart. And the stories of the Old covenant are the stories of God bringing His promises to pass. All the law and the prophets rest on two commandments, Love God and love your neighbor. To follow the covenant brought blessing, to break God's laws brought destruction

There were some peoples who were so wicked, debased, evil, and given over to Satan, that their very existance represented a threat to the human race, and the promise of redemption. They worshipped the stars of the heaven, the rocks and the trees, did immoral acts in honor to their gods who were no Gods, even offering their children as sacrifices. God judged them and destroyed them so that they would not polute the whole earth with their wickedness.

He delivered a people from slavery and opppression and led them through the dessert to a land flowing with milk and honey. He led them in Holy war to destroy those who were debased and wicked and planted them in the land of promise.

Even His precious chosen ones turned their back on Him as a nation and went whoring after the gods of the land, burning their children in the fire, breaking every commandment of the covenant.

His precious wife who He had married, and bore on the wings of eagles, desiring to meet her every need, commited whoredoms and adulteries like a dog in heat, she debased herself again and again.

Yet he still preserved a remnant and a seed of promise.

When the time came, the warrior God of the dessert looked through the eyes of flesh at his sweet mother's face. The precious babe Mary held in her arms was the promise that had been given from the foundation of the world.

He fleshed out what it truly means to love God and love your neighbor. His desire for the church stayed His course towards calvary so that with His death, and resurection, He could redeem her with His own blood. He is saying come and follow me and I will give you life, and that more abundantly.

Why are you looking at man and not looking at the author and finisher of your faith? we are all in a battle for our souls and the souls of our loved ones, and that of the whole world. Precious loved ones, do not turn back in the day of battle, but finish the course, keep the faith. He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

Lift you eyes higher than mankind, return and seek him. He is easy to find, In Him we live and move and have our being.

---------------------

Those of you who are ministers of Christ, what do you love more, the precious souls that Christ died for, or winning an argument on the internet?

Godly counsel.

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Don't follow people follow God as fleshed out in the principles of the Bible and the life of Christ.

We do not war against flesh and blood, but against spiritual wickedness in high places.

When mankind fell for Satan's lies his heart became deceitful and wicked. God could have stamped us out then and started anew.

Instead he promised a redeemer who would create a new heart. And the stories of the Old covenant are the stories of God bringing His promises to pass. All the law and the prophets rest on two commandments, Love God and love your neighbor. To follow the covenant brought blessing, to break God's laws brought destruction

There were some peoples who were so wicked, debased, evil, and given over to Satan, that their very existance represented a threat to the human race, and the promise of redemption. They worshipped the stars of the heaven, the rocks and the trees, did immoral acts in honor to their gods who were no Gods, even offering their children as sacrifices. God judged them and destroyed them so that they would not polute the whole earth with their wickedness.

He delivered a people from slavery and opppression and led them through the dessert to a land flowing with milk and honey. He led them in Holy war to destroy those who were debased and wicked and planted them in the land of promise.

Even His precious chosen ones turned their back on Him as a nation and went whoring after the gods of the land, burning their children in the fire, breaking every commandment of the covenant.

His precious wife who He had married, and bore on the wings of eagles, desiring to meet her every need, commited whoredoms and adulteries like a dog in heat, she debased herself again and again.

Yet he still preserved a remnant and a seed of promise.

When the time came, the warrior God of the dessert looked through the eyes of flesh at his sweet mother's face. The precious babe Mary held in her arms was the promise that had been given from the foundation of the world.

He fleshed out what it truly means to love God and love your neighbor. His desire for the church stayed His course towards calvary so that with His death, and resurection, He could redeem her with His own blood. He is saying come and follow me and I will give you life, and that more abundantly.

Why are you looking at man and not looking at the author and finisher of your faith? we are all in a battle for our souls and the souls of our loved ones, and that of the whole world. Precious loved ones, do not turn back in the day of battle, but finish the course, keep the faith. He who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him.

Lift you eyes higher than mankind, return and seek him. He is easy to find, In Him we live and move and have our being.

---------------------

Those of you who are ministers of Christ, what do you love more, the precious souls that Christ died for, or winning an argument on the internet?

I believe this, Amanah.

It is a very foolish person who fights against God...

[UnTraditional]

Maybe... maybe I am not really qualified to say anything on this thread. However, reading the responses of so many people about God, I kind of feel I need to state some things.

First off, I know in my own life, I have been a Pharisaical hate filled false Christian with religious makeup on. I judged others, made them feel less than what they were because of them not aligning with my beliefs at that time. I portrayed a God of hate and attacks, not one of righteousness and holiness in His love. I have also, as time progressed, been a victim of that same hate and attacks, having one preacher even say he would not be surprised if I committed suicide. So, I have been on both sides of this, and I know the sting of legalism and false religion. I also know that spirit is not of the God of the Bible.

When I walked away from church this last time, I walked away knowing I had given up a ministry, and that some people may be hurt over my decision. I did not care. I was sick and tired of men's measuring stick, man kingdom building, stress and pressure of being under so many religious microscopes, broken promises and unfulfilled dreams. I was through with it all, went cessationist for a time, and thought I would never go back to that 'nonsense' again. But, the Holy Spirit would not let me go.

In my darkest hour, as my body grew so sick from a side effect from medication I was on, and I thought right at my work I may just die (no exaggeration), I cried out to God and asked a single question, from a heart that did love God, and wanted Him, "God, can You use this for Your glory? Can You use this sickness for Your glory?" I heard, right in that hallway I was cleaning, "I can and will, by healing you." In less than 30 seconds, almost every bit of the sickness was gone, and within minutes, my body was back to normal, completely healed and restored.

Why say all this? Folks, after that, I came to know God, the God of the Bible, in a real and intimate way, like I had never experienced before. He meets with me in worship, in praise, and in prayer. I have learned to soak His presence, and His presence has filled me with such great joy that I laugh out loud, and He heals me. The God is promoted and pushed before was not the God I now know and have relationship with.

Too often, we are in a spiritual paradigm in which we get the same kind of hatred and anger that some have expressed here. As much as God is holy, He is also love. He calls us to walk according to His Word, but then also through the Holy Spirit enables us to do so, and knows that we will fall, yet still loves us to not leave us in our mess. He still hates sin and all unrighteousness, but He loves people, loves them enough to have Christ, His only Son, die for them, so that whosoever will can come.

I ask that you who have been wounded, let me know in PM so I can pray for you, as well as my friends and prayer team. I wish I had experienced so many years ago what I have now. But, I can now pray and share with you what I have received. And, I ask this, that if you desire this, I am waiting to pray with and for you.

[iapjcbrasil]

We are an apostolic church and believe in God's unique and his name is Jesus Christ, pray that God will help us a great revival in our church lives and missions are located in a poor region of Brazil state of Minas Gerais. I beg your prayers and I believe in God's move. If you feel we contribute missions below our means of donations.



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[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by webe123

Well, I feel sorry for ANYONE who blames God because of the way some people act!

Sure there are people who claim something and do something else, there are also people who really TRY to serve God. They are not perfect if that is what you are looking for(But let me ask those that are judging them a question..are YOU PERFECT?) , but there are those that are doing the best they can! Not everyone may be living for God like they should....but not everyone is a hypocryte either. That is clearly wrong thinking also.

To judge a whole group of people by the actions of a minority, is wrong! My pastor called it a cop out. It seems these people try to ignore the people in a church that TRY to live for God and have the right attitude and only focus on the ones that do not live for God like they should.

Now that does not mean the ones not living for God are right, but are the people playing judge and jury any better? I don't THINK SO!

I think a lot of people get hurt in churches and choose not to believe in anything...simply because they got hurt but think they cannot get hurt if the don't believe anymore in anything, but that someone who has hurt them so, is NOT GOD and them not believing in him will not make them experience any less hurt! That is just a fact!

Also, simply dis-believing God exsists does not make God any less real. He IS REAL! And you can count on that!

But it seems to be a form of protection for some. The theory is....How can you be hurt if you don't believe in anything at all? But that will not stop the hurts and heartaches from coming. Every life has a form of pain in it. The Bible says he causes it to rain on the just and unjust.

Think about that before you go writing off a whole group of people based on the actions of some that are not right.

You have well spoken.
It just appears that some Christians have forgotten these words of Jesus.
"By these shall all know that you are my disciples, if you love one another"

[OneEyedFatMan]

Well, since much of this seems to be spawned by me, I'll answer.
First.. I was not abused. I was tired of nonsense. Tired of "Christians who weren't" Tired of Hypocrites, tired of going to church to hear the never ending money beg and things from the pulpit instructing members to go take out a loan and give the money to the church.

Tired of three services a week that went three hours long each and being blasted if I missed.

And yes tired of people on these forums with the disposition of alligators. Cross their preconceived notion and they bite your head off.

None of those things let to the state of not believing.

I was also tired of the lies, giving some god the credit when the problem was fixed by science and medicine. and etc etc.

While I was in church, I was miserable. I hated every second of it. My blood pressure was through the roof, I was moody, grouchy, and hated getting out of bed in the morning.

In the months since I bailed, I feel good, my bp is normal and I was able to reduce the meds, I wake up happy and in a good mood and it stays with me all day. Leaving the pentecostal religion was the best move I ever made.

None of the above was the result for dis-believing. That comes from sitting and being sold a bill of goods about this prayer answering god who never answered one of mine... not for 22 years.

Oh the religionists say, "he always answers, he is just saying no." Well, when you don't even hear "No," and instead get nothing but silence, anfter long enough you get convinced there ain't nothing out there listening.

So, the combination tired of overbearing church, fake people led me to leave that.
The lack of any response from out there helped with the rest.

So, sorry, but nothing will make me step that way again except absolute irrefutable PROOF. And NOTHING AT ALL will lead me to put myself under the thumb of a church or pastor again.
Caio