Well Technically Speaking....

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Acts 2:38 is as much part of the gospel as the cross.

This is a very good example of the mindset of oneness Pentecostalism which was presented in Thomas Fudge's excellent book "Christianity Without the Cross".

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

I am just trying to ask a question and understand full well the Apostolic viewpoint - I did not roll out of bed into church yesterday.

Even Jeff Arnold will tell you that the gospel is not ACTS 2:38 - it can be stated that it is the response but it certainly is not the gospel.

I am also friends with men like Chester Wright who will not take the position of sending AG folks to hell over the titles baptism. He will not emphatically state that he knows they are saved, but he also will not state they are not. when he and I talked he simply stated "I hope so" - this is someone who is invited to preach at many "trinitarian" pentecostal churches.

The only thing I find hard to grasp is taking a hard line stance on this - Cornelieus may have been taught more truth, but was still considered a man mighty in the scriptures. Like I said, I am not waffling on how I would baptize, just curious on the absolute dogmatic approach....

Maybe I should have kept it to myself...

No you should not IMO. Sincere questions should never be kept to yourself. You have a sincere question and though you may agree or disagree there is nothing wrong with asking the question.

As you can tell in my post I absolutely believe in the necessity of Jesus name baptism. Why? Because it is FOR the remission of sins which has everything to do with the gospel. There is only one gospel.

I hope I am wrong if that makes sense but I would not count on that.
The ancient church believed baptism was part of the new birth - universally.
The ancient church believed baptism was for the remission of sins - universally.
The ancient church recognized Jesus name baptism as the most ancient form of baptism.

It was Trinitarian theology that changed baptism (Jesus name baptism) by emphasizing the need to be baptized into the trinity (titles Father, Son and Holy Ghost). A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Remission of sins has everything to do with the gospel.
And sins are forgiven/remitted by baptism in Jesus' name.

Ignorance is bliss and some people are exceedingly blissful.

I baptize in Jesus name. But salvation doesn't have anything in my opinion to do with the words spoken in baptism, but with the faith of the person being baptized. I think Romans 4 is pretty clear about this and in particular verse 10.

Baptism in JN is proper because His name was invoked it is biblically and historically supported that the early church baptized invoking the name of Jesus. Paul suggest that baptism was carried out in the name of the person who was crucified for us in 1 Cor 1:13. And of course baptism is an expression of obedience, faith, and identification with Christ. But we go to far to say if certain words aren't spoken in baptism someones sins are not remitted.

[Jack Shephard]

The Gospel has nothing to do with Acts at all. Acts is a book of the bible sure, but Acts also means works & works has nothing to do with salvation.

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I baptize in Jesus name. But salvation doesn't have anything in my opinion to do with the words spoken in baptism, but with the faith of the person being baptized. I think Romans 4 is pretty clear about this and in particular verse 10.

Baptism in JN is proper because His name was invoked it is biblically and historically supported that the early church baptized invoking the name of Jesus. Paul suggest that baptism was carried out in the name of the person who was crucified for us in 1 Cor 1:13. And of course baptism is an expression of obedience, faith, and identification with Christ. But we go to far to say if certain words aren't spoken in baptism someones sins are not remitted.

The same book of Romans where Paul elaborates on baptism being in HIM not them!?!? Romans 6.

The same book of Romans that the way to walk in new life is to be baptized in HIM not them!?!? Romans 6:5.

We clearly disagree but I appreciate the spirit of your post. I am glad you baptize in Jesus' name and I hope and pray you will lean more my direction.

[seekerman]

Bottom line, making it simple, it doesn't matter what another man utters while immersing someone.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

The Gospel has nothing to do with Acts at all. Acts is a book of the bible sure, but Acts also means works & works has nothing to do with salvation.

The bolded is only partly correct. The Gospel is not the book of Acts, but the book of Acts is the response to the Gospel; so Acts does have something to do with the Gospel. The response to the Gospel is described through the Acts of the Apostles. It's not that it means works and works has nothing to do with salvation. Acts is the actions which the Apostles did in response to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's a historical record of the events of the early church.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Jack Shephard

The Gospel has nothing to do with Acts at all. Acts is a book of the bible sure, but Acts also means works & works has nothing to do with salvation.

oh good grief.

if acts means work, then repenting is work.

no difference at all.

doublegoodgrief.

[Ferd]

The Gospel is the death buriel and resurection of Jesus Christ.

Peter preached the Gospel in Acts 2. the people were "pricked in their hearts" and asked what they needed to do.

Peter told them. I fail to understand why we are still arguing with Peter.... the man Jebus told to tell folk what to do?

triplegoodgrief.

[The Lemon]

I appreciate the input here...iron sharpens iron. Just for the record - asking a question and havving a good discussion about the Word is not always the same as arguing away the truth of the Word.

People need to be able to discuss, ask questions and rightly divide - not be made to feel lost and inferior for bringing something to the table to discuss - be it salvation or our favorite...holiness..