Come Out Of Her My People

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

You were saying? This was the original post. I'm not making some straw man. I was dealing what what the post stated. "be not partakers of her sins...forsake all the things that 'she' brought in (church buildings is mentioned as one of those things)."


You're completely ignoring (even with your response above) verses 15-18 and Deuteronomy 19 to make your points. Your points are incorrect when placed into the frame of the full passage of Matthew 18:15-22 and Deuteronomy 19.


Answer this: Is Matthew 18:15-22 about how to deal with trespass and sin, or is it about how many people God is with? 15-22 is the context. You cannot separate 15-18 from 19-22. They are inseparable.

Added up, this has to be about the 3rd or 4th time we have combined pointed out exactly what she said verbatim.

Yes Essias that is exactly what she implied by referring to it as PAGAN and to tell everyone over and over and over "Come out of her my people"

Let me remind you guys of that verse (which should also serve to prove she misused that verse)

Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;
Rev 18:5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
Rev 18:6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.
Rev 18:7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, 'I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.'
Rev 18:8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her."

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by renee819

Thank YOU, Esaias!!!!

Now, I need another witness, not only on this sidetrack subject, but the fact that the Church needs to come out of Paganism.
But first, their eyes has to be opened to the Pagan practices that has been handed down.

Someone explain to me how being IN PAGANISM is not the same thing as SIN?

Someone explain to me how being BLIND is not equivalent to a HEAVEN AND HELL issue

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So now that we have dealt with the side issues, the fact also remains that God commands his people to 'come out of Babylon'.

Failure to 'come out' results in two things:

1. Participating in Babylon's sins. And,
2. Receiving the same punishments from God.

Biblical Christianity is a 'come-outer' religion.

The early church had to come out of Judaism (for the Jews) and paganism (for the gentiles). The same thing is true today (although the influence of Judaism is growing amongst professing Christians, it is still yet slight compared to the influences of paganism).

Of course, most people are not willing to 'go outside the camp'. They either want to 'reform' their compromised 'church', or they are just happy with things as they are. Some even want to further the compromise, hoping to be 'change agents' to 'modernize' the theology and faith of others.

But reform movements never succeed. They always wind up in need of reformation themselves. Witness the Methodist church, as a perfect example. They made some 'reformations', but did not go further. And so people had to 'come out' yet again... resulting in the Holiness revival. And then, they too ossified, and did not go on. So once again, when God moved, His people had to come out.

Here we are today. The pillar is moving, but many will be 'left behind' to die in the wilderness.

The call to come out from false religion, and get back to the unadulterated Word of God and the faith ONCE delivered to the saints, to the faith of the original church, and of the apostles of the Lord, is just as valid today as it was 2,000 years ago.

And meets with much of the same kinds of opposition as it did back then.

Is this supposed to be in agreement with her that we are all in Babylon because we are in a "building"?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Is this supposed to be in agreement with her that we are all in Babylon because we are in a "building"?

I don't see where she said people are in Babylon BECAUSE they are in a building.

I DO recall her several times saying the building is immaterial.

I was MOVING ON from the gnat of buildings and on to the more important issue of pursuing biblical Christianity, examining all things and discarding those elements of our faith and practice that are not from Divine Revelation (the scripture) but from pagan religious traditions of men.

But apparently, everybody wants to harp on endlessly about whether meeting in a particular building is 'sin' or not.

Or on whether Jesus is actually present WHEREVER two or three are gathered in His name.

It gets tedious when threads digress into endless debate about who said what instead of actually dealing with the thread topic. Sort of like missing the forest because of being so fixated on the bark on one tree.

Have fun, guys.

[Esaias]

So here's a question: how much pagan tradition, and traditions of men, are tolerable in a church claiming to be the church of Jesus Christ? Where is the line to be drawn?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It gets tedious when threads digress into endless debate about who said what instead of actually dealing with the thread topic. Sort of like missing the forest because of being so fixated on the bark on one tree.

Have fun, guys.

Like debating whether or not it's proper or Biblical to use the term "House of God?"

The thread topic was a list of things alleged to be sins which the RCC brought in...

Tithes
Clergy
Church Buildings

That was the original post to set the topic of the thread.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I don't see where she said people are in Babylon BECAUSE they are in a building.

I DO recall her several times saying the building is immaterial.

Its in her FIRST post where she made the assertion of coming OUT of Paganismn and then gave a LIST of what she meant

She starts with the bible quote (The same one you referred to about coming out of Babylon)

Come Out Of Her My People

Do I need to say more?

Well here is more

Quote "Let's face it. We are ruled in the churches by Pagan Christianity."

Pagan Christianity. She then goes into a list of what she means

Quote: "It was the Catholic Church that brought in the Trinity baptism.
The hierarchy of Clergy and Laity.
The paying of tithes.
Church buildings
And many other things."

Then she adds

Quote: "And the only way that I see “to come out of her” is to start Home Churches by those that are completely dedicated to God."

Start a HOME church by those that are COMPLETELY DEDICATED TO GOD.

I don't know how you can't see that is what she said

[n david]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So here's a question: how much pagan tradition, and traditions of men, are tolerable in a church claiming to be the church of Jesus Christ? Where is the line to be drawn?

I'm sure one could nitpick and dissect every little thing the church does and find a lot of them have been used by pagans. Does that make it wrong? No.

In the OT, Pagans gave sacrifices to their gods; yet the Israelites did the same. Pagans had their own set of feasts, celebrations and holy days; didn't keep the Israelites from having theirs. Pagans celebrated marriages; Israel did so as well. Pagans had numerous temples to their gods; Israel had several as well, though at different times - the wilderness tabernacle, David's Temple, Solomon's Temple and Herod's Temple. Pagans had their worship; Israel the same.

What pagan traditions do you know of currently being used by an apostolic/pentecostal church? Don't use tithes, church buildings or clergy because that's wrong.

[shag]

N David, do u believe that where 2 or 3 disciples gather in His name, w no issues to resolve, that the Lord is there in their midst?

[n david]

Originally Posted by shag

N David, do u believe that where 2 or 3 disciples gather in His name, w no issues to resolve, that the Lord is there in their midst?

I believe God is with one person during their of prayer and devotion. You don't need one or two more people to have the Lord with you.

My issue isn't with whether the Lord is in the midst, obviously He will be regardless if there are one, two, twenty, five hundred....and on and on. My issue is with taking that small sentence out of a completely different and broader context to say, "Praise God, church! Even though most are out on vacation, God is still here; because he said whether two or three are gathered together....."

Again, reiterating what I've already gone over; the context is one of dealing with trespass and having two or three witnesses. Deuteronomy 19 says persons involved appeared "before the Lord" (ie He was in their midst) and the priests and judges; Matthew 18:15-22 is Jesus restating that principle, and saying that if it's followed, He's in the midst.