Strange Fire Conference

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

...is there any more division, jealousy, and dislike in any other denomination in Christendom than in the OP movement?

Your view of 'church divisions' is rather myopic. Have you spent any time perusing the discussions which take place among Eastern Orthodox people? Including their leadership?

If you did you would realise the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox groups are the KINGS of schism.

The russian Orthodox for example have at least about 10 different schisms going on RIGHT NOW. It got so bad in the early 20th century they even had MULTIPLE schismatic groups claiming there was no more church of God in the earth! They have had patriarchs and antipatriarchs, popes and antipopes if you will, galore. And I am just talking in the last century, forget their whole history.


The Reformed bunch aren't much better. You do realise that practically EVERY 'reformed' denomination is a schism, because they believe the other Reformed denominations are in some kind of error?

How about the Adventist movement? Literally SCORES of groups came out of that.

How about Herbert Armostrong's bunch? Just in the last 30 years alone that one single movement divided up into about 50 different entire denominations, arguing over various minor and major doctrinal points.

The Messianic movement is even more fractured with everything from full blown Talmudic Judaism (with a touch of Yehsua) to full blown charismatic evangelicalism (with a touch of sacred name-ism).

How about the Baptists? American baptists alone have more denominational structures, all created because of SCHISMS, than probably any other American religious movement with the possible exception of the Sacred Name bunch.

And finally, who has the history of MASS MURDER? Yeah, I said it - MASS MURDER.

The Catholics, Reformed, Orthodox groups have a rather detailed history of MURDERING entire communities of Christians who believed differently than they did.

I sure don't know any apostolics who believe that trinitarians should all be rounded up and PUT TO DEATH BY THE STATE, or that anyone who practices infant baptism should be likewise BURNT AT THE STAKE.

I don't know of any apostolic pentecostal group that believes, desires, or would EVER promote the mass roundup of ALL OTHER DENOMINATIONS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.

'Same spirit'? I think not.

Sure we disagree. We disagree on some fundamental issues. So did folks in the early 1st century church. You can read about those disagreements in the pages of your Bible. The earliest apostolic church faced schism and heresy. Nothing new.

This ecumenical attitude you desire is contrary to all Christian history, including the pages of the New Testament. It was and is nothing less than a plot by the Jesuit counter-reformation to 'bring all christians back to Rome'. The Vatican still enjoins the counter-reformation. The 'ecumenical movement' where all Christians just 'love each other and unite in friendship and get along' is a creation of forces who desire to EXTINGUISH biblical christianity.

The very existence of the schismatic 'Old Catholics' and 'traditionalist catholics' is due to Rome's attempt to create an ecumenical uniting of all christians.

The humanists and socialists picked up the ball with the 'evangelical movement' and the liberal 'ecumenical movement'.

To say this is comparable to the disputes among apostolics is naive at best. To say apostolics must not stand for truth and point out error is hypocritical.

Where is your condemnation of MacArthur's condemnation of YOU? According to him you are a HERETIC. And according to the Reformed tradition he claims to be a part of, you deserve to be put to death by the state.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Dr. Macarthur nails it again.

My entire point is that MacArthur claims the reformed movement knows no heretics, yet Reformed people are claiming HE IS A HERETIC.

He has addressed the charges made against him in reference to his teaching on the blood. Others have responded to his rebuttals and found them wanting.

All within his little bubble of 'non schismatic Reformed religion' lol.

[Esaias]

http://johnmacarthurexposed.blogspot.com/

Allow me, by way of introduction, to say how I became interested in the goings on at GCC. My interest in GCC began in March 2005 when a local pastor invited me to accompany him to the GCC Pastor’s Conference being held that same month. Wanting to get information about the conference, I went to the GCC website where I noticed that Dr. Albert Mohler was to be a keynote speaker. I’d never heard of Dr. Mohler. When curiosity pressed and an internet search ended, I had discovered information about Dr. Mohler that was not in accord with his Christian profession.

I had discovered that Dr. Mohler was a Founding Fellow of the “think tank” of a UN-NGO. I had discovered that a UN-NGO is a non-governmental organization that is listed with the UN and that serves the UN and its one-world agenda. And therefore, I concluded that it must necessarily follow, that Dr. Mohler, being a Founding Fellow of this UN-NGO’s “think tank” which serves the UN and its agenda, must also serve the UN agenda. (It has since been confirmed to me by a colleague of Dr. Mohler’s that all the Fellows of the “think tank” of this UN-NGO are dedicated to the principles of the charter of the UN).

...

I proceeded to write a letter to each of the members of the GCC elder board. I warned them all of Dr. Mohler’s associations. I received a reply from elder, Phil Johnson, dated March 23, 2005. Regarding Dr. Mohler’s associations, Mr. Johnson wrote, “We may not agree with all his associations, but nothing in Scripture demands that we separate from a true brother in Christ just because we may disagree with him on where he draws the circle of his own fellowship.”

...

Being dissatisfied with the reply I’d received from the GCC elder board, I then decided to make phone calls to several other GCC pastors in order to inform them of Dr. Mohler’s UN connection. Surely, they would all be concerned. I told them all that Dr. Mohler was a Fellow of a UN-NGO. What was their response? The pastors all angrily denied this easily verifiable fact.

I then decided to write letters to about ten more GCC pastors. I expressed to them my concern that Dr. Mohler was a Fellow of a UN-NGO. I received a reply from one pastor, Rick Mclean, responding for all, who, putting himself in the position of God, told me that the information I’d given them regarding Dr. Mohler’s associations “was of no eternal consequence.” This pastor also told me to never contact them again regarding this matter.

...

Believing the GCC authority’s behavior to be deceitful, and knowing they didn’t want Dr. Mohler’s UN affiliation exposed, I decided to do just that at their March 2006 Pastor’s Conference. With Dr. Mohler again invited to be a keynote speaker, I stood outside their church and handed out flyers to the arriving pastors.

The flyer was titled “Al Mohler and the United Nations.” The flyer basically contained 2 facts: Al Mohler was a Founding Fellow of the Research Institute (think tank) of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission (ERLC) and that the ERLC was a UN-NGO.

How did the GCC officials respond to these flyers being handed out on the public sidewalk outside their church? A GCC pastor, Eric Bancroft, with the head of security in tow, approached me and angrily told me that my flyer contained “all lies”; he then warned me that if I was to set foot on GCC property, I’d be arrested. When I left GCC that evening, some GCC officials followed me and with the head of security present, they photographed my car and wrote down my license plate number.

...

In the summer of 2006, I wrote a letter intended for the Christian remnant at GCC in which I warned them of this dangerous church growth infiltration. It was titled “A Wake Up Call to the Saints at Grace Community Church.” While standing on the sidewalk across the street, I handed out copies to the congregants as they left the church. I handed out this letter of warning for three consecutive Sundays.

On the second Sunday, as I handed out the “Wake-up Call,” the police were called. A black and white unit stopped and an officer approached me and told me that they had received a call claiming that I was harassing the congregation. I was handing out my letter to Christians as they left the church. I never harassed anyone and no one had complained to me.

Why were the police called? On that same day, in what could be construed as another act of intimidation, a GCC official approached me and told me that the GCC authorities were considering a lawsuit against me.

More at the link. MacArthur is not who you people think he is.

[Nitehawk013]

I don't care for his off the cuff speech or anyone really tossing "heretic" charges around.

Regardless, I've listened to and read many of Macarthur's teachings on various subjects and typically found them to be superior to anything I've heard in Pentecostal pulpits. I would say the same for men like DA Carson, Sproul, and a few others.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

I don't care for his off the cuff speech or anyone really tossing "heretic" charges around.

Regardless, I've listened to and read many of Macarthur's teachings on various subjects and typically found them to be superior to anything I've heard in Pentecostal pulpits. I would say the same for men like DA Carson, Sproul, and a few others.

Then why are you Pentecostal? Why aren't you Reformed?

[Nitehawk013]

Recognizing their theological depth in most areas of systematic theology doesn't mean I recognize them as authorities on theology proper or basic Acts soteriology. Mush like on this forum I find most of your knowledge on many issues to be great and many of your arguments very persuasive. Yet on some others...not quite.

[Steve Epley]

Another lying false prophet who cares what he says? Not me.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Another lying false prophet who cares what he says? Not me.

Apparently you do.

What you don't care about is the preaching of your compatriots which results in the deaths of men, women and children....and infants. As long as the women don't cut their hair and the tithes are paid to the preacher in that group, then what's the deaths of a few men, women, children and infants?

Tell us about the false prophets in your little group, whydoncha?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

Recognizing their theological depth in most areas of systematic theology doesn't mean I recognize them as authorities on theology proper or basic Acts soteriology.

My point is that MacArthur and Sproul teach from a paradigm that is rooted in a theology that you, as a Pentecostal, reject.

If the seed is bad, how can the fruit be good?

Mush like on this forum I find most of your knowledge on many issues to be great and many of your arguments very persuasive. Yet on some others...not quite.

You find my arguments not quite persuasive on some issues? HOW DARE YOU!!!!



lol

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Apparently you do.

What you don't care about is the preaching of your compatriots which results in the deaths of men, women and children....and infants. As long as the women don't cut their hair and the tithes are paid to the preacher in that group, then what's the deaths of a few men, women, children and infants?

Tell us about the false prophets in your little group, whydoncha?

Why are you calling Elder Epley a liar, and what exactly makes you think is ok to accuse the elder of being partial to murder?


speaking of false prophets. YOU are telling flat out lies and being utterly dispicable. no thumbs up here. your just nasty.