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11-03-2013, 02:28 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,076
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Submission to a pastor
This morning, our pastor preached on the topic "Submission to authority". As with any sermon, there was some truth that could be gleaned from it. One thing I disagreed with was his view that Romans 13 is speaking of church authority. It seems pretty clear that this chapter is a general reference to civil authority.
As I listened, I wondered what had prompted him to preach this message. In the little over three years I've been a member, this is the first time I've ever heard him preach on this. One striking comment went like this....
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"I know there are some of you here today who though you attend regularly, you've never let me truly pastor you."
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I sat on the edge of my seat waiting for instruction in righteousness. But alas, I received none. He kept me in suspense, as so many others have done who have preached on this subject, by never really explaining what biblical submission is, and what it is not. I still have no idea was his expectations are on the matter. Another striking comment was....
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"Some may ask, What if my authority is wrong?' That's between him and God. You don't need to worry about that! You just obey the word and pray for the man of God".
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How far do we take that? My AoG elders admonished my not to attend the UPC. Was I in rebellion against my authority?
On the way home, my wife and I strained our brains to think of any way Biblically that we are not in "submission" or that we might have even unknowingly undermined our pastor's authority (not that he was preaching to us).
Thoughts? Comments?
Last edited by Originalist; 11-03-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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11-03-2013, 03:10 PM
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Isaiah 56:4-5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 11,307
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Great timing.
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11-03-2013, 03:18 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Submission to a pastor
There's too much preaching and not enough Teaching. "Pastoring" should be letting the word speak. Teach. Educate. Inform. Empower
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-03-2013, 03:19 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 10,076
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Re: Submission to a pastor
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Originally Posted by houston
Great timing.
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I couldn't help but wonder. But again, what is " submission"? How am I NOT " submitting"?
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11-03-2013, 03:43 PM
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Isaiah 56:4-5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 11,307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
I couldn't help but wonder. But again, what is "submission"? How am I NOT "submitting"?
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You are not submitting by going elsewhere. Haha. It is not your fault that he couldn't "persuade" you. 
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11-03-2013, 03:44 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 14,650
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Re: Submission to a pastor
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Originally Posted by Originalist
I couldn't help but wonder. But again, what is "submission"? How am I NOT "submitting"?
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Is he asking/ordering you to do something? To many if not most, submission means to come to the meetings, give amens, and of course pay tithes and offerings.
Not much other than that.
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11-03-2013, 04:01 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Submission to a pastor
When the bible speaks of submitting, is it in the Lord or to the word they teach or is it to any whim that person can think of?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-03-2013, 06:09 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,406
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Re: Submission to a pastor
There is an hierarchy in our relationship with God that must be followed in order to have a proper relationship with God....
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Paul was teaching that as long as he followed Christ, then follow him. But, don't forget the head of every man is Christ, not the preacher, not the pastor or evangelist, but Christ.
When someone starts teaching pastoral authority, I don't listen to much else they have to say. That means the pastor isn't leading by example. Of course what would help tremendously is for the members of that congregation to actually study and read the bible for themselves instead of looking for a man to lord over them.
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11-03-2013, 06:49 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Submission to a pastor
Quote:
Originally Posted by seekerman
There is an hierarchy in our relationship with God that must be followed in order to have a proper relationship with God....
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.
1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.
1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Paul was teaching that as long as he followed Christ, then follow him. But, don't forget the head of every man is Christ, not the preacher, not the pastor or evangelist, but Christ.
When someone starts teaching pastoral authority, I don't listen to much else they have to say. That means the pastor isn't leading by example. Of course what would help tremendously is for the members of that congregation to actually study and read the bible for themselves instead of looking for a man to lord over them.
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Wow...you finally got something right :-)
Seriously, that was good.
I view Pastors as facilitators
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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11-03-2013, 07:45 PM
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Repent and believe the Gospel!
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville FL
Posts: 3,090
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Re: Submission to a pastor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist
This morning, our pastor preached on the topic "Submission to authority". As with any sermon, there was some truth that could be gleaned from it. One thing I disagreed with was his view that Romans 13 is speaking of church authority. It seems pretty clear that this chapter is a general reference to civil authority.
As I listened, I wondered what had prompted him to preach this message. In the little over three years I've been a member, this is the first time I've ever heard him preach on this. One striking comment went like this....
I sat on the edge of my seat waiting for instruction in righteousness. But alas, I received none. He kept me in suspense, as so many others have done who have preached on this subject, by never really explaining what biblical submission is, and what it is not. I still have no idea was his expectations are on the matter. Another striking comment was....
How far do we take that? My AoG elders admonished my not to attend the UPC. Was I in rebellion against my authority?
On the way home, my wife and I strained our brains to think of any way Biblically that we are not in "submission" or that we might have even unknowingly undermined our pastor's authority (not that he was preaching to us).
Thoughts? Comments? |
I had the spirit of Jezebel on me according to my old pastor. My marriage is cursed because we did not obey according to my wife'e old pastor.
We would be still be in UPC and single and the thought of that grieves me.
__________________
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4)
Scripture is its own interpreter. Nothing can cut a diamond but a diamond. Nothing can interpret Scripture but Scripture" Thomas Watson.
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