I have a question. you said you are now a family without a church. does that mean you have been freed from structured time with the Lord or just a building?
Do you plan on holding regular devotion time at home? Do you plan on reaching out to those around you to join you in devotion/worship time?
Whats the plan dude!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Reliable church history suggests there were large gathering of Christians in many if the big important cities. I don't know of a serious historian who suggests the churches mentioned in the NT were small in number.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esaias
Seriously? They were 'running' however many people?
How about this - you have NO IDEA how many people were Christians in any particular city with the possible exception of Jerusalem. Could be a couple dozen, could be a couple thousand... either way, it's SUPPOSITION.
Also, how about they met from house to house? IE each church consisted of several groups which met at several houses. As for 'when they ALL came together', when exactly would that have been? Supposition, perhaps?
I really think you are viewing the first century church through 20th century (or 21st century, whatever) lenses and reading into the text a modern paradigm.
I know you don't think they had pews and stained glass, either, right? Tell me you don't think that...
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson
Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado
Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard
Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
I have zero issue with folks who teach and preach the truth in a house setting.
I have zero issue with folks who come together in a larger setting we like to call "church"
I think both are "church" and both groups make of PART of the body.
The things that are important to me are:
1. Are you meeting regularly?
2. Are you grounded in the truth?
3. Are you connected in some way to the wider body of Christ so that you are anchored and not blown about by every wind of doctrine?
4. Do you have mechanisms for both personal spiritual growth AND evangelism?
These things are far easier in the traditional church model; there is no reason why it cannot work in a house church setting. But every house church participant seeking to replicate the early church must recognize that these folk were VERY connected to each other, they had clear church government with overseers and evangelists. They were not islands separated and unconnected.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
About these "house churches" being small because their services were held in a home. MAYBE they had a rich pastor that sucked those tithes from all those poor people and the church was meeting in his big mansion. Just a thought.
__________________
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Do Not Argue With Idiots, they will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
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About these "house churches" being small because their services were held in a home. MAYBE they had a rich pastor that sucked those tithes from all those poor people and the church was meeting in his big mansion. Just a thought.
LOL. I think you are just being a troublemaker today!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
The reason we left 'going to church' in fact is because the churches we went to were unable to keep up with us in our walk with God.
I think this part of you response speaks volumes. So loudly I will let it speak for itself to readers.
Well, I tried to fixed your quote function for ya. lol
Yes, it speaks volumes. And it's the truth.
When your church is stuck on 1 - we're great cuz we're pentecostal, 2 - have faith in God and he will see you through whatever tough time you're going through, and 3 - ya'll need to invite everybody you know to come here and get some of this!, with the usual 'let's start with 3 or 4 songs, some announcements and a quick pep talk, read 1 or 2 verses from the bible, speak for 30-45 minutes on #1-3 above, then an altar call for people to 'meet God and receive your blessing/re-dedicate yourself to God cuz some of ya'll must need it' while the pianist/organist plays a slow emotive song, followed by 15-30 minutes 'at the altar' then winding it down and chit-chat for 15 minutes about sports, the weather, politics, etc, then out go the lights...
And YOU however are trying to learn how to lead your family in the Truth of God, are examining everything seeking to hold fast what is good, searching for ways to LIVE the bible, not just read about it or talk about it once or twice a week 'at church', actually STUDYING the Word of God and not content with mere surface, milquetoast 'gospel tract' level understanding, seeking the truth about REAL HOLINESS of heart, REAL manifestation of the Spirit, REAL 'hour of prayer', interceding for the lost, travailing in prayer for the church, for the lost, for the brethren, and wondering why in the world the church just seems so content with the status quo...
Then yes, your church obviously cannot keep up with your walk with God.
Some of us desire more than the typical 'church' has to offer, some of us wish to contribute more than the typical 'church' desires to receive, some of us just get tired of trying to fit into an environment that is more like a corporate business enterprise with a veneer of religiosity than the ekklesia of God.
When you want your children exposed to and surrounded with people who SUPPOSEDLY ARE WALKING WITH GOD but who turn out to be no more spiritual than the local united methodists down the road, then yes you have outpaced your 'church'.
Pentecostal churches exist because the existing churches of the day could not keep up with people's walk with God.
And now things are coming full circle.
Busy-ness and 'activity' are no substitute for the manifest power of God. Downloadable sermon points from a generic sermon-generating website are no substitute for the meat of Scripture and a prophetic word from the throne.
*I* got tired of feeling like everytime I went to 'church' I was a victim of a bait and switch con game. elders, pastors, and teachers who don't understand even BASIC, fundamental doctrine? Who, when you ask them questions can only say 'well, just keep coming to church and everything will work out' or 'that's crazy, never heard of that' or 'well, you need to get focused on what's important'. And what's important? Why, warming a pew and putting on the act (never mind you feel as if you are slowly dying inside, yearning to experience JUST ONCE what you read in Scripture, and hearing rally cries of 'we got it just like the Bible says!' and yet NEVER ACTUALLY SEEING IT HAPPEN.
Still love ya, CC, even though I think you are just as elitist as you think I am.
I have zero issue with folks who teach and preach the truth in a house setting.
I have zero issue with folks who come together in a larger setting we like to call "church"
I think both are "church" and both groups make of PART of the body.
The things that are important to me are:
1. Are you meeting regularly?
2. Are you grounded in the truth?
3. Are you connected in some way to the wider body of Christ so that you are anchored and not blown about by every wind of doctrine?
4. Do you have mechanisms for both personal spiritual growth AND evangelism?
These things are far easier in the traditional church model; there is no reason why it cannot work in a house church setting. But every house church participant seeking to replicate the early church must recognize that these folk were VERY connected to each other, they had clear church government with overseers and evangelists. They were not islands separated and unconnected.
By traditional I suppose you mean modern (I would argue the traditional model is the one that preserves the tradition of the apostles... heheheh).
But the bolded part I would disagree with. Meeting in a modern church format is no security against false doctrine. There are MORE schismatic, deceived, heretical 'modern churches' than there are house churches in the same condition. False doctrine depends on PEOPLE, not organisational structures. Thus, wherever there are people, there is danger. The antidote is prescribed by the BIBLE ITSELF. The apostles taught hat SOLID TEACHING is what wars against heresy, not specific organisational structures.
They are also counter-productive, in my experience, with developing real disciples, having real discipleship and spiritual growth. Many folks in the modern church structure have little connection with other Christians except during meeting times. Almost all interactions I had with church members outside of the service was as boring as all get out - might as well hang out with the lost neighbor cuz at least we'd talk about GOD!!! which i always found very WEIRD.
Note: I do not mean ALL exclusively, I have known a FEW, just a FEW, brethren who were as much into Jesus outside the church walls as inside. But few and far between.
And then you say this: "But every house church participant seeking to replicate the early church must recognize that these folk were VERY connected to each other, they had clear church government with overseers and evangelists. They were not islands separated and unconnected."
This interconnectedness with the body of Christ is what most house churches are seeking, and not finding, in the modern denominational world.
Well, I tried to fixed your quote function for ya. lol
Yes, it speaks volumes. And it's the truth.
When your church is stuck on 1 - we're great cuz we're pentecostal, 2 - have faith in God and he will see you through whatever tough time you're going through, and 3 - ya'll need to invite everybody you know to come here and get some of this!, with the usual 'let's start with 3 or 4 songs, some announcements and a quick pep talk, read 1 or 2 verses from the bible, speak for 30-45 minutes on #1-3 above, then an altar call for people to 'meet God and receive your blessing/re-dedicate yourself to God cuz some of ya'll must need it' while the pianist/organist plays a slow emotive song, followed by 15-30 minutes 'at the altar' then winding it down and chit-chat for 15 minutes about sports, the weather, politics, etc, then out go the lights...
And YOU however are trying to learn how to lead your family in the Truth of God, are examining everything seeking to hold fast what is good, searching for ways to LIVE the bible, not just read about it or talk about it once or twice a week 'at church', actually STUDYING the Word of God and not content with mere surface, milquetoast 'gospel tract' level understanding, seeking the truth about REAL HOLINESS of heart, REAL manifestation of the Spirit, REAL 'hour of prayer', interceding for the lost, travailing in prayer for the church, for the lost, for the brethren, and wondering why in the world the church just seems so content with the status quo...
Then yes, your church obviously cannot keep up with your walk with God.
Some of us desire more than the typical 'church' has to offer, some of us wish to contribute more than the typical 'church' desires to receive, some of us just get tired of trying to fit into an environment that is more like a corporate business enterprise with a veneer of religiosity than the ekklesia of God.
When you want your children exposed to and surrounded with people who SUPPOSEDLY ARE WALKING WITH GOD but who turn out to be no more spiritual than the local united methodists down the road, then yes you have outpaced your 'church'.
Pentecostal churches exist because the existing churches of the day could not keep up with people's walk with God.
And now things are coming full circle.
Busy-ness and 'activity' are no substitute for the manifest power of God. Downloadable sermon points from a generic sermon-generating website are no substitute for the meat of Scripture and a prophetic word from the throne.
*I* got tired of feeling like everytime I went to 'church' I was a victim of a bait and switch con game. elders, pastors, and teachers who don't understand even BASIC, fundamental doctrine? Who, when you ask them questions can only say 'well, just keep coming to church and everything will work out' or 'that's crazy, never heard of that' or 'well, you need to get focused on what's important'. And what's important? Why, warming a pew and putting on the act (never mind you feel as if you are slowly dying inside, yearning to experience JUST ONCE what you read in Scripture, and hearing rally cries of 'we got it just like the Bible says!' and yet NEVER ACTUALLY SEEING IT HAPPEN.
Still love ya, CC, even though I think you are just as elitist as you think I am.
But what if you had stayed? Maybe you could have been the spark that led to a full blaze of revival fire in that church.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE.... My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
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