Sinful housework

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Antipas

The hardest thing to do is to forgive one's self.

Very true words. But, I believe that when we understand the completeness of the forgiveness of God in our lives, when we have done all we can do to repent, and make right the wrong in our lives, that the Lord can bring a healing to our minds, and a peace to take the place of the pain.

And when the enemy comes back to try to accuse us of the past, we can remain confident that it is under the blood, not to be removed, and strung out again, because the Lord does not do that. He forgives, and it is gone.

The enemy is the condemner and the one who would bring out our past sins, and parade them in front of us. Our job is to remind him of his future, and praise the Lord for his healing, and forgiveness, and not entertain any thoughts of condemnation.

There is healing available from the Lord that will help you to forgive yourself and to go on and be more than a conqueror for the Lord!

[MarieA27]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

So true Marie. The spirit and mind of Christ should reign in us, and can. It works to continually perfect us. But our flesh will always resist, and that is the catch. We are still in the flesh, we have not received our glorified bodies yet, and we are still in the war. It is a battle, but we can continue to overcome, and be conquerors on a daily basis.

I would like to address the temptations that you brought up. I have heard the saying "You can't help that a bird flies over your head, but you can keep him from building a nest on your head." So yes, we cannot control the thoughts, desires, and things that the flesh will use to fight against the spirit. Just because we experience a temptation, does not mean we have sinned. The difference is when we begin to entertain and give place to the thoughts that come, to the temptations that show up.

HOW we deal with thoughts/temptations/desires, determines whether it becomes sin or not.

We can resist and fight back against the temptations/thoughts/desires of our flesh with the Word of God and the Spirit of the Lord.... or we can entertain those things, allow them to take up residence, and become eventually a sin in our lives. There is a big difference, and very important to understand, so that we don't beat ourselves up for things we shouldn't.

Yes! This is what I keep trying to say when these conversations come around. But can you agree with me that, if we never let those temptations/thoughts/desires take over us, that if we don't entertain these things, that if we keep resisting, then we can in fact live perfect, sinless lives? I always look at that scriptures that tells us to be "perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect" as being perfect in all that we know. As in all that you know to do that is right, you do that, and whatever you know to do that is wrong, you don't do that

I guess along with a few others, I keep asking this question, "What do you think being sinless and perfect means?" Because when it's explained and outlined like it is above, how can you not live a sinless life? Does it mean that you can't fight temptation, that you have to always give in, or most or at least some of the time? I just want to understand..

[Antipas]

Perfection. It is always in the eyes of the beholder.

I believe that perfection isn't a static state. Too many believe this and stunt their growth. Perfection is a process. In fact, we see this in our own lives. Our children are born... and they are perfect. They crawl and they are perfect. They become toddling toddlers toddling about and they are perfect. They grow into young adults. They begin to encounter life on this world and make choices. Some for their good... some for their bad... and yet still... they are perfect. They grow into adults and parents, grandparents, and then they die. Throughout this process... they are perfect.

One is perfect as long as one is being all that God intended them to be in that moment. It doesn't demand a moralized perfection. Nor a legalistic perfection. It's a perfection in relation to what one is... not in relation to what one does.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I believe that we can be conquerors, MTD. One day at a time. Do you agree that the flesh still has not been perfected? Jesus is the ONLY perfect human, both flesh and spirit. The Spirit of Christ can reign in us, but the flesh will constantly be resisting.

So, to understand this, the Spirit of Christ seeks to perfect us, but the flesh is constantly resisting. Paul compared our spiritual walk to a battle, and it is. Paul told us to fight the good fight of faith. It is a fight every day to allow the spirit of Christ to reign in our lives.

But, the mind of Christ can reign, we don't have to allow sin to reign, but we must be aware that it is a constant battle we will fight until the day we die, or we are transformed into the incorruptible body Paul speaks of.

Yes Jesus said we must deny ourselves daily.

Luke 9:23-24

And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

No way is it all a done deal EXCEPT by faith. There certainly is a battle between the flesh and the spirit. And yet the Lord Jesus never in any statement says anything to make us think we cannot do his will!

Even Paul the writer of the famous flesh vs spirit passages sandwiched that information in between Romans chapter six and eight which are filled with teaching about the overcoming life!

To the Galatians he sums o the three chapters (Romans 6-8) like this:

Gal. 5:16-24

16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

He concludes this teaching with an almost unheard of truth in verse 24.

They that are Christs HAVE crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts!

So in no way does the Apostle leave saints with the impression the war between the flesh and spirit cannot be won. Rather verse 24 actually questions the salvation of of anyone who has is allowing lifes affections and lusts to rule them.

This is why we must also make war on todays false doctrine that men cannot overcome sin. If we give the message that sin is normal to a Christian it may be all their flesh needs to hear to come down off the cross, give in to temptation and allow sin to overcome them.

[Luke]

Why not just get rid of the fleshly carnal nature and walk free of sin not free from temptation but free from the desire and pull of sin

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

[MarieA27]

I feel like I'm lost regarding what everyone is saying in regards to the terminology everyone is saying.

I think that there is a battle within you when these temptations come about, especially those sins that you haven't died out to yet. Even if or when you die to sin and overcome it, wherein it loses all its luster, stop being appealing to you, where you have no care or desire for it, it doesn't mean that the devil isn't going to tempt you, to see if you truly did die to it.

Anyway, yes I believe that you are to crucify your flesh, dying to sin, that you're to live a sinless life of perfection, but that doesn't mean that you're not going to have to fight, battle, still overcome any new temptations (or even old ones) that pops up.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Luke

Why not just get rid of the fleshly carnal nature and walk free of sin not free from temptation but free from the desire and pull of sin

22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

This is done through faith on a daily basis. Jesus said deny yourself DAILY.

That's why Paul said I DIE DAILY.

Even Yeshua had to pray at the end of his ministry "Not as I will but as you will".

Nonetheless there are seasons when we may find victory much easier than at other seasons.

Bottom line is we are new creations in Christ. We can and must overcome sin.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is done through faith on a daily basis. Jesus said deny yourself DAILY.

That's why Paul said I DIE DAILY.

Even Yeshua had to pray at the end of his ministry "Not as I will but as you will".

Nonetheless there are seasons when we may find victory much easier than at other seasons.

Bottom line is we are new creations in Christ. We can and must overcome sin.

This is one of the topics that we agree on for the most part.

I cannot see in scripture where we have to kill the flesh everyday. The passage which you are refering to where Paul says that he dies daily is not in reference to killing any fleshly desire or even to dying to his flesh daily rather in context he is speaking of being willing to die physically daily. I agree that we like Jesus may not want to feel the pain that following God bringsbut we like Him should also never desire to sin. I also agree that there are times the devil fights harder than at other times. You are correct as to the bottom line also. Like one older preacher once said it is more important to live holy than it is to know holiness doctrine.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Luke

This is one of the topics that we agree on for the most part.

I cannot see in scripture where we have to kill the flesh everyday. The passage which you are refering to where Paul says that he dies daily is not in reference to killing any fleshly desire or even to dying to his flesh daily rather in context he is speaking of being willing to die physically daily. I agree that we like Jesus may not want to feel the pain that following God bringsbut we like Him should also never desire to sin. I also agree that there are times the devil fights harder than at other times. You are correct as to the bottom line also. Like one older preacher once said it is more important to live holy than it is to know holiness doctrine.

Yes for the most part PTL.

Yet think about what Paul meant by "I die daily" in the light of the words of Christ.

Luke 9:23

23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

Deny self, take cross DAILY.

Admittedly when flesh is consistently denied it sometimes seems as if there is no conscious effort going forth. But that is the fruit of consistent obedience.

[renee819]

Haven't read all of the Post's, but all so far seem good. I agree it is a daily 24/7 desire to serve God more than self. Therefore we are to die daily.

Michael wrote,

24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

He concludes this teaching with an almost unheard of truth in verse 24.

They that are Christs HAVE crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts!

So in no way does the Apostle leave saints with the impression the war between the flesh and spirit cannot be won. Rather verse 24 actually questions the salvation of of anyone who has is allowing lifes affections and lusts to rule them.

This is why we must also make war on todays false doctrine that men cannot overcome sin. If we give the message that sin is normal to a Christian it may be all their flesh needs to hear to come down off the cross, give in to temptation and allow sin to overcome them.

So True!