The evolution of Spirit terminology

[pilgram]

Thanks that was excellent Votive. It amazes me how much life instruction is included in the Pauline epistles. It really is a instruction manual, if you will, on how to please Him with your life. That study on debate now has me thinking of politics. I think I will do a study on it as well. Thought provoking topics. Appreciate the research.

[obriencp]

this was/is a great thread.

I'd like to offer my take on this and please feel free to correct me if I misrepresent anyone's views.

Lets assume the following about believer A and B:
1. Both Believer A and B have repented.
2. Both have been baptized in Jesus' name by immersion.
3. Both do speak in tongues.
4. Both are living a life pleasing to the Lord and are producing good fruit becoming a saint.
5. It is assumed by statements 1-4 that both belivers are saved.

The debate is when and how were these believers saved.

Believer A says they were saved at repentance and their true faith has produced works such as Baptism in Jesus Name, a filling to point of empowerment evidenced by speaking in tongues, and a victorious life. It is their opinion that the works did not save them, but it was their faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for them on the cross.

Believer B says they were saved once they repented, were baptized in Jesus Name, and were filled with the H.G. evidenced by tongues.

If both have experienced similar experiences isn't the end product (both being saved) the same?

Having said that I offer this opinion. We need to place more emphasis on Jesus and the work done on the cross. I see too much emphasis being placed on what 'we' can do to be saved. I fear this misplaced emphasis produces a self-righteous, judgemental attitude that seeks the fruit of faith rather than seeking a true saving faith.

I see many B believers judging A because they feel that A is against baptism, HG infilling, tongues, holiness, etc. A is not against these things but is trying to emphasize that we cannot do anything to "earn" our salvation. It is by Grace we're saved through FAITH. True faith will produce fruit and that person will be eager and hungry to study and obey the tenants of the Bible.

We cannot let the B believers crush A believers faith if they haven't yet participated in baptism or haven't spoken in tongues yet. We should encourage spiritual growth rather than encourage signs to sooth our conscience.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by obriencp

this was/is a great thread.

I'd like to offer my take on this and please feel free to correct me if I misrepresent anyone's views.

Lets assume the following about believer A and B:
1. Both Believer A and B have repented.
2. Both have been baptized in Jesus' name by immersion.
3. Both do speak in tongues.
4. Both are living a life pleasing to the Lord and are producing good fruit becoming a saint.
5. It is assumed by statements 1-4 that both belivers are saved.

The debate is when and how were these believers saved.

Believer A says they were saved at repentance and their true faith has produced works such as Baptism in Jesus Name, a filling to point of empowerment evidenced by speaking in tongues, and a victorious life. It is their opinion that the works did not save them, but it was their faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for them on the cross.

Believer B says they were saved once they repented, were baptized in Jesus Name, and were filled with the H.G. evidenced by tongues.

If both have experienced similar experiences isn't the end product (both being saved) the same?

Having said that I offer this opinion. We need to place more emphasis on Jesus and the work done on the cross. I see too much emphasis being placed on what 'we' can do to be saved. I fear this misplaced emphasis produces a self-righteous, judgemental attitude that seeks the fruit of faith rather than seeking a true saving faith.

I see many B believers judging A because they feel that A is against baptism, HG infilling, tongues, holiness, etc. A is not against these things but is trying to emphasize that we cannot do anything to "earn" our salvation. It is by Grace we're saved through FAITH. True faith will produce fruit and that person will be eager and hungry to study and obey the tenants of the Bible.

We cannot let the B believers crush A believers faith if they haven't yet participated in baptism or haven't spoken in tongues yet. We should encourage spiritual growth rather than encourage signs to sooth our conscience.

The problem is, A believers also routinely disparage B belivers by claiming the B believers are legalists and relying on their own works to save them etc etc etc, and it is usually concluded that B belivers have never experienced grace and therefore (by necessary inference) are not actually saved.

Another problem is we separate correct doctrine from salvation too much. We judge salvation by does a person FEEL all lovey-dovey toward their fellow man, does a person speak in tongues, does a person go to church, etc etc etc. And we neglect the question 'does a person WALK IN THE TRUTH', for the truth is what will make a person free, and the truth (God's Word) is what sanctifies us.

Thus, there is a 'sign or evidence of salvation' that many seem not to want to look at - and that is walking in Biblical truth.

[obriencp]

^ Also good points.