Question About Submission

[renee819]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

The reason why 'standards' are taught as 'holiness' is because they are outward and become an easy way to see who is or isn't lining up. But the most awful thing about this, other than it is unbiblical, is that it causes people to focus on the outward. I know what it is to be in a church where fornication is going on in the church leadership, but because everybody 'looks holy' they are okay.
When there is preaching about making sure those elbows and knees are covered but no teaching about being honest in your personal business dealings or messages about the dangers of lip gloss but no preaching about what a sun it is to slander a brother or bear false witness against a neighbor.

Roxanne, that's the problem, exactly.

[renee819]

Abiding Now;1292769]Seems like there's a whole bunch of rebellious wimmen on this thread...................


But hey, no need for violence here. Down lady! I said DOWN! what are you doing? Put that ax away!

No, Abiding, it's not rebellion.

I've went to Pentecostal churches, 66 years. And I have never caused any trouble or problems in any that I went to. I believe that, you, “obey them that have the rule over you,” And the Pastor should have the rule. But most times, we can choose who has the rule over us. So when the Pastor fell, or failed, most times there was a change of Pastors, but if there wasn't, I quietly left that church.

When I was a teen, we were taught, “Don't try to explain the gospel to others. Bring them to church, and I will explain it to them.”
In my 20's I began to get hungry. Hungry, to know and understand the Word of God. And started studying on my own.
Along side of being confirmed of the wonderful foundation of the Gospel, I began to see false teaching's. I sat there and swallowed them for about 20 years, thinking, well the true gospel, was what was important.

But the spirit inside of me was grieved.

Why are these women, dissatisfied with their churches? I can't speak for all of them, but most Pentecostal ladies today, study and pray at home, and God reveals things to them. I don't believe that they want to chuck everything and live like the world.

When you look at the world, (in my opinion) they have lost the harmony in music. And they have lost the decency of clothing the body in harmonious clothing. Do you see how many pregnant ladies go around in tight T shirt and skin tight pants, with their belly sticking out and sometimes even their belly showing. And they have lost the sense of decent talk. Anybody want to go out there to a heathen world?

NO! Us ladies want to serve God in true holiness, and purity of mind and spirit, and not have to swallow a clothes-line, fed to us as holiness. While our spirit is hungry for true holiness teaching, on how to get rid of anger, jealousy, hate, greed, unholy thoughts, etc.
How to love a husband, that is not spirit led, or a grump, or can't handle money, or is interested in JUST making money, or believes in the Prosperity Message.
How women are to love their children, and not scream and holler at them and put them down. But to teach them, true holiness of the spirit. How people are to approach the world, in love and not try to win them by being like them.

ENOUGH?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

The reason why 'standards' are taught as 'holiness' is because they are outward and become an easy way to see who is or isn't lining up. But the most awful thing about this, other than it is unbiblical, is that it causes people to focus on the outward. I know what it is to be in a church where fornication is going on in the church leadership, but because everybody 'looks holy' they are okay.
When there is preaching about making sure those elbows and knees are covered but no teaching about being honest in your personal business dealings or messages about the dangers of lip gloss but no preaching about what a sun it is to slander a brother or bear false witness against a neighbor.

This is so true. I have seen far more fallout in Pentecostal churches with fornication, adultery, and promiscuous behavior, than I have in any other church organization.

The church my husband's family attended while growing up (and some of his family still attend), is constantly plagued with marriages destroyed because of adulterous behavior that goes on, families that are broken because people within the church were having affairs, all while preaching, shouting, running the aisles, and so on. It is so sad.

True story: One of my husband's extended family members had a sad situation take place. One day, she happened to pick up the home phone to make a phone call, and overheard her mother's conversation with a man in the church, and realized her mother was having an affair. With all the fall out from that... her mother and stepfather had to move away from the church to another church, while the man she was having the affair with quit church all together. Her mother was one of the most self-righteous people you could ever meet, totally looked the part of holiness, but... the fallout of that outward standard was destruction because it never transformed her heart. This is just one very personal example. I know of many, many more...

Whenever the standards are upheld as salvational, and taught and changed by the pastor at will, there seems to be a fallout in the congregation with adulterous behavior that goes on unchecked, as long as you keep in line with the pastor's outward standards.

I've seen it way too many times in far too many churches... and unfortunately, I believe it is the end result of preaching a "standard" as salvational, instead of teaching holiness as a principle to live by.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by renee819

No, Abiding, it's not rebellion.

I've went to Pentecostal churches, 66 years. And I have never caused any trouble or problems in any that I went to. I believe that, you, “obey them that have the rule over you,” Why are these women, dissatisfied with their churches? I can't speak for all of them, but most Pentecostal ladies today, study and pray at home, and God reveals things to them. I don't believe that they want to chuck everything and live like the world.

Originally Posted by renee819

NO! Us ladies want to serve God in true holiness, and purity of mind and spirit, and not have to swallow a clothes-line, fed to us as holiness. While our spirit is hungry for true holiness teaching, on how to get rid of anger, jealousy, hate, greed, unholy thoughts, etc. How to love a husband, that is not spirit led, or a grump, or can't handle money, or is interested in JUST making money, or believes in the Prosperity Message. How women are to love their children, and not scream and holler at them and put them down. But to teach them, true holiness of the spirit. How people are to approach the world, in love and not try to win them by being like them. ENOUGH?

You are right, Sis. Renee. The bulk of the "holiness message" is attached to women's attire, when in reality, it needs to be balanced with proper authority in the home, which is God-Christ-husband-wife-family, and attention to principles of holiness, instead of application.

HEART TEACHING is what Jesus concentrated on, which eliminates the Pharisaical elitist attitude, and brings us all into humility, men, and women... and true heart holiness that can only be attained by following the commandments of Jesus, which are to love HIM and love one another... commandments not easily lived out.

It is far more easy to live an outward standard than to seek heart purity and perfection. The easier path has been chosen by the OP, but the fallout is destructive.

That is why there must be an acknowledgement that teaching of standards as "salvational" must be done away with. Teaching heart purity, teaching proper authority in the home, teaching us to love one another, will result in far more amazing results than any clothesline teaching ever will.