It puts fear in the hearts of other members to see how the last wayward sheep was dealt with.
and that's where the problem is.
"I would rather try to persuade a man to go along, because once I have persuaded him, he will stick. If I scare him, he will stay just as long as he is scared, and then he is gone." -Dwight D. Eisenhower
I had a dear friend and mentor who told me that he does not get attached to people because every time he does they backslide. He still does not talk to me It was he and his wife who introduced me to my wife, it was their home that was opened up to me and my daughter on Christmas eve for fellowship. We spent quality time together as brothers and friends. I miss that dude!
I am like you I think friendships transcend denominations and doctrine, but they don't transcend Christ.
LOL. Chalk this up to the growing list of reasons we are "kindred spirits" although for the life of me, I cannot see how anyone could put in 20 years in the Navy! LOL
friends are vastly more important to me than all the points of belief we may or may not have in common.
I am very serious about my walk with God and about what I believe is the Truth. But that doesnt mean I must limit my connections to those who are in lockstep with me on all points.
I have very serious issues with folk like your friend who wont talk to you now. And I have very serious issues with my friends who walked away from me when the walked away from the church we had in common.
sigh. I suppose there is enough wrong to go around. All I can do is try to keep my little corner of the world clean.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I mourned. First, because 99% of everyone I knew and had grown to love wouldn't talk to me any more. Second, I didn't know how to be a Christian without the "church structure" and "standards" system. It has taken nearly five years to work many things out in my own heart regarding my faith.
I've been out 8 and I'm still working on it.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
I mourned. First, because 99% of everyone I knew and had grown to love wouldn't talk to me any more. Second, I didn't know how to be a Christian without the "church structure" and "standards" system. It has taken nearly five years to work many things out in my own heart regarding my faith.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILG
I've been out 8 and I'm still working on it.
This is what I have trouble understanding. My faith is autonomous from the UPCI and even my local church. If we left today, my basic beliefs would remain the same, and most of my practices would stay the same. What is it that requires "working on?" I don't intend for that to be snarky; I'm wondering. Do you feel that you didn't really know what you believed?
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
This is what I have trouble understanding. My faith is autonomous from the UPCI and even my local church. If we left today, my basic beliefs would remain the same, and most of my practices would stay the same. What is it that requires "working on?" I don't intend for that to be snarky; I'm wondering. Do you feel that you didn't really know what you believed?
I don't think you are being snarky.
Here's my life beliefs in a nutshell:
I was raised Catholic.
I was converted to a faith experience in high school. It was real. It was a believer's prayer. This was only a 'me' experience, meaning I was not led into it (other than a book) and did not attend a different church because of it as my mother required me to be Catholic.
I partied a lot in college.
I left college and my husband and I partied until I had a conversion experience in a Charismatic church. He did shortly thereafter.
We entered the UPC and stayed for 19 years. We believed what we were taught.
We left. We attended an evangelical church for four years. My husband attended only for my sake.
I had an epiphany about the Bible not being what I had been taught. It is not a black and white rule book. This opened up a realm of many thoughts because I see the bible as more of a written tradition that is partly inspired. I struggle to understand my conversion experience, which was phenomenal with what I was taught and what I now believe. I do not attend church.
This has been a long road and, as my sig line says, I do consider many things and I trust God is leading me on this path.
My mother is a Catholic. My dad follows a type of American Indian spirituality, my sister follows Buddhist teachings, more or less, my brother drinks in bars as a lifestyle. My husband simply does not think about it.
I am completely free to choose my own path with little influence. This makes me open to ideas and thoughts that others may not contemplate. As the butterfly in my avatar, I may be easily blown by the wind to and fro. But I am free.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
...We entered the UPC and stayed for 19 years. We believed what we were taught.
...I had an epiphany about the Bible not being what I had been taught.
So do you feel that it was your epiphany about the Bible that really changed a lot of your core beliefs? Did you hang on to the basic doctrinal beliefs after you left the UPCI? Did you exit the UPCI with the same basic set of beliefs with which you entered? Was your change in beliefs gradual or did you immediately put down everything you weren't sure about or found disagreeable?
I do love your signature, btw. Truth doesn't fear questions. Truth can be threatened in other ways, though.
__________________
"God, send me anywhere, only go with me. Lay any burden on me, only sustain me. And sever any tie in my heart except the tie that binds my heart to Yours."
--David Livingstone
"To see no being, not God’s or any, but you also go thither,
To see no possession but you may possess it—enjoying all without labor or purchase—
abstracting the feast, yet not abstracting one particle of it;…."
--Walt Whitman, Leaves of Grass, Song of the Open Road
So do you feel that it was your epiphany about the Bible that really changed a lot of your core beliefs? Did you hang on to the basic doctrinal beliefs after you left the UPCI? Did you exit the UPCI with the same basic set of beliefs with which you entered? Was your change in beliefs gradual or did you immediately put down everything you weren't sure about or found disagreeable?
I was a three stepper the whole time I was in the UPC and for quite a while after we left. I can't remember how many years it was before I became a one stepper but the initial change was only about standards. I understood them as scriptural applications rather than bible law. (Which was really my first step away from the Bible as a black and white rule book.) That was the only change for a long time. Then, I began to feel that people who were baptized in the titles were also baptized in Jesus name because they believed in Jesus and the preacher said I baptize you in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost....which is the same thing.
I entered the UPCI with a very, very loose set of beliefs which mirror loosely what I believe now. I was so excited about my new relationship with God, completely non-judgmental, full of curiosity about God, soaking up things like a sponge. I would have done ANYTHING, (almost) that they told me to do. I had only good thoughts about the people, thinking they all loved God passionately, just like me. I was very young, very naive, ripe for anything.
My revelation about standards was sudden, immediate. However, I could not change outwardly for four more years, when we left. And I had a great deal of time to think about it.
Everything else has been very gradual over time. And I haven't landed. What's more, I feel no need to. I would like to be a little more landed than I am, but I never want to stop growing and learning or to the point that I feel I know everything and am therefore, your instructor.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
I left a similar oneness organization recently this year and it has been tough. For my wife more so than me since it was her church she grew up in that we left. There are numerous churches who believe the core doctrine but do not put an emphasis on outward standards (more than you think). The thing that has helped us more than anything is to cut social media ties with the people from the church, not seeing them in your Facebook or Twitter feed is a help.
It still hurts the way people treat us; since we still live in the same town, we will see people from that church in public and many of them walk by and do not even acknowledge us and treat us like an unforgivable backslider. Others (just a few) still stay in contact but they know our differences in belief of a few things do not and should not be grounds of friendship.
It's a tough decision to walk out the doors, but once you do don't look back. You will become intoxicated with the atmosphere and familiar surroundings (and the pressure of others to "salvage" your lost soul).
Did you cut your ties with these people before or after the way they treated you?
Just remember people, when you leave a group, it's you that is leaving. They did not leave you. Sometimes people don't know what to make of that.
I've known people that left us. They cut all ties to us, even unfriended me and others on Facebook when I was willing to remain in touch with them.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Sis A., it would be sort of like you leaving the mission field. You define yourself as a missionary and would probably feel lost without it, even though God would still be with you.
I wonder how the mission field would feel or react if she just packed up her stuff and left everyone behind...never called, no explanation...
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
One of the best thing for us was that, since we were pastoring when we left, we resigned and didn't tell anyone what we were doing....and moved.
This made things very quiet and peaceful.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but everyone talks about how they were treated by those they left....Im sure leaving that way was easier on you but I wonder how it affects those that were not told?
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
It was he and his wife who introduced me to my wife, it was their home that was opened up to me and my daughter on Christmas eve for fellowship. We spent quality time together as brothers and friends. I miss that dude!
Truth can be threatened in other ways, though.
Linear Mode
