Hard Hitting Praise Tonight Misty Edwards

[KeptByTheWord]

MTD, what are your thoughts on contemplative prayer?

Have you visited IHOP prayer room yourself to know if what many say is true? You are coming out in support of these people without possibly really knowing what is going on there, which you cannot see just by reading a webpage.

I am bewildered why you so highly endorse a group who are involved in Catholic mysticism, and contemplative prayer.

I would think you would you visit them first, and find out firsthand if what is being said about them is true, before being such an avid supporter of them?

Below is an article listing reference to a book that Bickle himself has published endorsing contemplative prayer:

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worl...articleid=7387

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Friend you don't have a clue.

So nice of you to say.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Farfel

So nice of you to say.

I really mean you no harm. Its just that when you compare IHOP to the Salvation Army it lets me know that you don't know anything about IHOP.

[endtimer]

I plan to visit IHOP on the way down to visit family this march. I'll be sure to report back.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

MTD, what are your thoughts on contemplative prayer?

Have you visited IHOP prayer room yourself to know if what many say is true? You are coming out in support of these people without possibly really knowing what is going on there, which you cannot see just by reading a webpage.

I am bewildered why you so highly endorse a group who are involved in Catholic mysticism, and contemplative prayer.

I would think you would you visit them first, and find out firsthand if what is being said about them is true, before being such an avid supporter of them?

Below is an article listing reference to a book that Bickle himself has published endorsing contemplative prayer:

http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worl...articleid=7387

Hi KBTW,

So I looked at one of the links and found this:

The technique goes something like this: find a quiet spot to sit or lie down, breathe deeply, and begin to focus on something for the purpose of stilling your thoughts. (The "something" can literally be almost anything: a candle, a word, a phrase, repetitive music, drumming, one's own breath, etc.) After about 20 minutes of practicing this technique, which is simple to do, a person will enter into an altered state of consciousness. In this altered state of consciousness, the mind is no longer active and critically engaged, and able to assess data. In this state, the mind is passive, its God-given barriers down; it is able only to receive information, much like a radio receiver. Mystics from all faith traditions the world over often report ecstatic experiences of becoming yoked to some spiritual energy, leaving them feeling refreshed, energized, and peaceful after engaging in their mystical practices.

So exactly how does this pagan practice manifest itself in Christian churches today? It looks something like this: instead of repeating a Buddhist mantra or the name of a false god, the Christian practitioner of Spiritual Formation would use something like the Jesus Prayer.....

"Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy upon me, a sinner."
...or they might repeat a short Scripture.....

"Be still and know that I am God."
...or they might simply repeat the name.....

"Jesus"

Is this what its all about? Getting quiet before the Lord? We have always called this "waiting on the Lord".

Personally from the first few weeks after I repented I have always repeated scripture over and over. We used to call that "memorizing scripture". I find nothing wrong with that. I was just doing it night before last.

Try to consider this. The web site that has the link where you sent me is also an Evangelical site. They promote once saved always saved among other errors. If you look enough there you will probably find teachings against Oneness Pentecostals. They will distort our beliefs also.

Have I been in IHOP'S Prayer Room? I have been there over the net at least 100 times. All it is is 24/7 people worshipping Jesus. In the midst of the worship people line up to the mic and pray for the Churches worldwide and the nations to turn to Christ. The prayers they pray are actually the most Biblical prayers you could ask for. Most of them modeled after the prayers Paul prayed in the New Testament.

People also may be sitting there reading their Bibles and praying. My knowledge of IHOP does not come from a web page. It comes from seeing what they teach in their public meetings and what comes across the prayer room.

Now there may possibly be really sinister things at IHOP that I don't know about. I personally oppose Trinitarianism strongly and publicly. I also oppose "one step" doctrine strongly and publicly. I don't like all I have seen at IHOP.

Now I will cut this post short and come back and explain my thoughts about IHOP and "Apostolic Churches".

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Hi KBTW,

So I looked at one of the links and found this:

Is this what its all about? Getting quiet before the Lord? We have always called this "waiting on the Lord".

Personally from the first few weeks after I repented I have always repeated scripture over and over. We used to call that "memorizing scripture". I find nothing wrong with that. I was just doing it night before last.

Try to consider this. The web site that has the link where you sent me is also an Evangelical site. They promote once saved always saved among other errors. If you look enough there you will probably find teachings against Oneness Pentecostals. They will distort our beliefs also.

Have I been in IHOP'S Prayer Room? I have been there over the net at least 100 times. All it is is 24/7 people worshipping Jesus. In the midst of the worship people line up to the mic and pray for the Churches worldwide and the nations to turn to Christ. The prayers they pray are actually the most Biblical prayers you could ask for. Most of them modeled after the prayers Paul prayed in the New Testament.

People also may be sitting there reading their Bibles and praying. My knowledge of IHOP does not come from a web page. It comes from seeing what they teach in their public meetings and what comes across the prayer room.

Now there may possibly be really sinister things at IHOP that I don't know about. I personally oppose Trinitarianism strongly and publicly. I also oppose "one step" doctrine strongly and publicly. I don't like all I have seen at IHOP.

Now I will cut this post short and come back and explain my thoughts about IHOP and "Apostolic Churches".

If all you did was look at the one link, you obviously don't know anything about contemplative pray, centering prayer, or the Lectio Divina which they practice and promote.

Watching a webcast is not the same as being there in person, no matter how many times you go online and watch. It's silly to suggest that because one watched a video online they know all about what the place is really like in person.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I really mean you no harm. Its just that when you compare IHOP to the Salvation Army it lets me know that you don't know anything about IHOP.

Exactly. There are good people working at the Salvation Army. I wouldn't disparage it by comparing it to IHOPKC.

[KeptByTheWord]

MTD, have you heard of Brian Flynn? He was heavily involved in the New Age movement before turning his life over to the Lord. He wrote a book called "Running Against the Wind". He was shocked, after turning his life over to the Lord, to find the very practices and evil powers that had so possessed and bound him for so many years, to find them being promoted among many of the churches he visited. He has a youtube video, which is worth watching, if you don't want to read the book. (Below) His insight into contemplative prayer is quite valuable, and should be considered in this discussion.

I am sure the folks there in the prayer room, the majority of them are very sincere folks. The same could be said for what goes on in OP and Apostolic churches too. I have a great respect for so many wonderful people who really knew how to touch God.

I suspect that you have found something in the music at IHOP that you can relate to from coming to the Lord in the Jesus movement generation. However, I would think that you would be very careful to not get entangled with the contemplative prayer group of people. It would shock me after the stand you have taken on so many other vital issues, for you to think that contemplative prayer is okay.

Here is a link to the book: http://www.amazon.com/Running-Agains.../dp/0972151257

Youtube video with Brian Flynn

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlqZBkY9Pk8

[Michael The Disciple]

Here is a quote from Poster ndavid to me from the music thread. I had posted an album by Misty Edwards. Not promoting IHOP doctrine just her hard hitting music ministry. He wanted to come on board with IHOP is a cult. After some discussion he said:

Originally Posted by n david View Post
Nice try.

Let me see if I have this right...you're okay with promoting an organization that teaches a false, new age belief just as long as there's one or two things you believe as well.

Mmmmk.

Since you desperately want to shift the focus away from your promotion of a false doctrine to my church...I'll say a couple things about it. Funny how when people can no longer defend the indefensible, they change the subject.

So let's play your game.

We're an independent, apostolic church.

We believe in modesty, but not outward dress standards. We have a council of elders who will be training young men to be licensed by the church and ordained. The Pastor does not take tithes, he worked a secular construction job and just recently retired. We adopted an elementary school which we have a few drives a year for school supplies, shoes and other needs. We also support a woman's shelter for abused women. Pastor does not believe pre-trib.

Remember, gotta keep changing the subject. That's the name of your game. Don't want to face the fact that you support an organization that teaches false doctrine.

To which I answered him:

I wont change the subject. We will include all relevant topics. I like the things you said about your Church. If by not pre trib you mean post trib I would say you have more truth than IHOP.

From what he said about his Church I would say it is more sound than IHOP. I would rather be part of a Oneness Church than Trin altho make no mistake I do not claim to be a member of IHOP in any way.

But we never did get into the Unbiblical errors and heresies that are frequent among "Apostolic Churches".

He and you have expressed concern over Catholic Mysticism at IHOP. And yet I ask as I did in the other thread if his Church keeps Christmas and Easter? He came out for them in the thread at least for Christmas as I recall.

Where is the outrage over a Catholic Pagan holiday? I am offended at the thought of an omnipresent santy claus who knows when weve been sleeping and knows when were awake. That knows when weve been bad or good so be good for goodness sake!

Where is the outrage over the lie that Jesus was born on Dec. 25?

How about the outrage over Easter Bunnies and eggs being looked for in the name of Christs resurrection?

That would just be the beginning of the exposing of what goes on in "Apostolic" Churches.

NOW PLEASE don't take this wrong. I am Oneness Pentecostal. But I have said more than once on this Forum I don't mind the label "Charismatic" either. My favorite identification was as a "Jesus Freak" in the 1970's.

I saw more of a dynamic move of YHWH among them than I have seen anywhere since then. I was sad when it was swallowed up by the Charismatic movement.

Probably few people care about how I came up in Christ over the years but perhaps you may since you ask why I have such a love for IHOP. I will try to wrap it up in my next post.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by n david

Exactly. There are good people working at the Salvation Army. I wouldn't disparage it by comparing it to IHOPKC.

My son in law was brought up in and still promotes the Salvation Army. There is no comparison at all in faith toward Jesus.