End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

and almost half a century later and still blessed by their oversight in my life...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Roxanne Murphy

And my evaluation of the continued repeat responses of our self anointed and self appointed Greek scholar stands true: he has a doctrine that is very important to him, has searched out a scripture or two that might be made to support that doctrine to the exclusion of what the rest of scripture says about the subject


Ummm, "a Scripture or two" - the entire Bible, from Genesis to Revelation knows absolutely NOTHING about a "woman-preacher" in the modern-day sense of women expositing from Scripture to a congregation of ANY sort .


And, I Timothy 2.11-3.15; I Cor. 14.34; Titus 1; Ephesians; James; etc. alllll explicitly teach and/or directly forbid women to "preach-teach" to men - despite how hard you may fight against it .



(through the fallacy that some scriptures are more authoritative than others, my Bible tells me all scripture is given by inspiration of God, and that no prophecy of scripture is of any private interpretation),


New International Version
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation of things.

New Living Translation
Above all, you must realize that no prophecy in Scripture ever came from the prophet's own understanding,

English Standard Version
knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.

This passage (that you referenced above) has absolutely nothing to do with how I, nor anyone else, interprets NT doctrine (especially since this passage is referring to the OT canon ) - It's simply stating that the Scriptures did not originate from the writer's own ideas. Has nothing whatsoever to do with how I interpret the Bible .


This well demonstrates why you backslid & walked away from external proprieties & biblical doctrine - you don't understand the Bible (as you just demonstrated ).



and now he continuously insists that all other scripture be forced to agree with this doctrine or else it must be argued away, often with personal slurs against those who cannot see the scriptures through his filter.


Yea', the following is just sooooo difficult to understand huh':


11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve....I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church."


Whew - Man, that's some-kind of hard to break down ! Regarding "slurs," if you can dish it out.....



I will say that I believe this is the first time I have been called an ultra liberal feminist, and this is actually humorous for anybody who knows me can testify that I am no such individual.


Likewise, any one who knows me would laugh you to scorn for calling me a "Pharisee" below (nice diversionary tactic though) - Ho-Hum & Big Yawn....


Thank you for the interaction, my brother Pharisee. It makes me thankful once again for God's amazing grace and mercy to me that He saw fit to shine the light of truth into my world of man made traditions, the 'holiness' culture in which I was raised.


External decency & holiness is every-bit biblical - what's "man-made tradition" is those who reject the clear teachings of the Bible in these areas (just as you do with "women-preachers"). It's simply defiance in the face of the biblical data .


So you just keep on enslaving, er, I mean, 'encouraging' the folks still living under the yoke of the commandments of men: it is your livelihood and a source of great self satisfaction for you. I will be busy doing my part to fulfill the true purpose of the church, as found in Matthew 28:18-20.

Yes, & I'll keep preaching what the Bible specifically says & teaches in all of these areas - as well as teaching against the errors of those like yourself .



Be back later tonight to continue the fun - Just had a few minutes .

[ILG]

I used to preach back in the day. Thought I would chime in for a moment.

1 Timothy 2:11-13
King James Version (KJV)
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

Notice that this says "the man" not "the men" and talks about Adam and Eve. I believe this is talking about a woman not nagging her husband.

34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Seeing as this seems to be a direct contradiction against women prophesying and the Bible allows women to prophesy to men elsewhere in the Bible, it only makes sense that this must be speaking of something other than women prophesying and is likely connected to the cultural context of women and men being separated and possibly women being unable to hear what was going on.

Since women were used powerfully by God in prophesying to Kings about going to war (Huldah) and in judging the people of God and leading them (Deborah) and the Bible specifically states that sons and daughters shall prophesy, those who don't want women to speak in the church at all find themselves wrestling with scripture in my opinion. They also allow women to testify and sing and other things, but say they draw the line at preaching or pastoring. Since God saw fit for a woman to lead Israel altogether (Deborah), I think in certain circumstances it can be good and fine for a woman to lead the whole camp. There is a terrible and nasty spirit that makes all women into Jezebels and flaming feminists for simply wanting to be used of God. Shame.

Anyway, there's my two cents, for what it's worth.

[Sister Alvear]

ILG..I have always wanted to meet you!

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

I used to preach back in the day. Thought I would chime in for a moment.

Notice that this says "the man" not "the men" and talks about Adam and Eve. I believe this is talking about a woman not nagging her husband.

Seeing as this seems to be a direct contradiction against women prophesying and the Bible allows women to prophesy to men elsewhere in the Bible, it only makes sense that this must be speaking of something other than women prophesying and is likely connected to the cultural context of women and men being separated and possibly women being unable to hear what was going on.

Since women were used powerfully by God in prophesying to Kings about going to war (Huldah) and in judging the people of God and leading them (Deborah) and the Bible specifically states that sons and daughters shall prophesy, those who don't want women to speak in the church at all find themselves wrestling with scripture in my opinion. They also allow women to testify and sing and other things, but say they draw the line at preaching or pastoring. Since God saw fit for a woman to lead Israel altogether (Deborah), I think in certain circumstances it can be good and fine for a woman to lead the whole camp. There is a terrible and nasty spirit that makes all women into Jezebels and flaming feminists for simply wanting to be used of God. Shame.

Anyway, there's my two cents, for what it's worth.

Glad to see you throwing your hat in the ring for a go-round...

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

ILG..I have always wanted to meet you!

Me too!

[Dordrecht]

What does Ummm mean?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

ILG..I have always wanted to meet you!

That would be nice, Sis. A.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Me too!

Some day we'll get together and

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by ILG

Some day we'll get together and

Oh, won't we have a time....

[rdp]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I have read carefully your posting of Daniel Wallace's commentary on the "aner" and "guder".

Gune and aner are words which mean 'adult female' and 'adult male' in their unmarked meanings. Only if there are sufficient contextual clues that husband and wife are in view do the words mean 'wife' and 'husband.' The definite article or 'idios' (one's own) or a possessive pronoun is required to show that husband and wife are in the text. None of these things occur in 1 Tim 2. The article occurs in 1 Cor 11, but only because it is syntactically required by the construction. Both passages are clearly talking about the Christian community in worship, which would of course involve single adults and married couples. Take a look at other passages that are clearly speaking about husband and wife--e.g., Eph 5, 1 Peter 3--and you'll see that they use these signals to note that husband and wife are in view.

Ok, I get that Dr. Wallace does not think the passage is talking about a husband/wife relationship. He is just one intellectual with an opinion. He is using his human reasoning and knowledge to try to understand what Paul was talking about. I understand that is his intellectual opinion. There are MANY opinions out there. I respect his opinion, and yours too, but they remain opinions. No one will ever know for sure exactly what Paul meant, because of the language culture at that time that we never will truly understand. It remains that all these things are one's opinion.


Say What??? His "intellectual opinion" ?? Do you know who Dr. Wallace is? His text books "The Basics of New Testament Syntax: An Intermediate Grammar" & "Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics; An Exegetical Syntax of New Testament Greek" is used in virtually every seminary. He once contracted viral encephalitis & it wiped out his memory so bad that he couldn't even remember his wife's name. Upon his recovery, he retaught himself Greek by reading his own Greek texts books. Dr. Wallace is considered the leading Greek-grammarians-translators-textual critics on the planet today & is a also a renown papyrologist specializing in the preservation of ancient papyri. For more on Dr. Wallace see here: http://danielbwallace.com/cv/ & http://www.dts.edu/about/faculty/dwallace/.


You, (with absolutely no training in Greek) relegate his careful syntactical observations & exegesis to mere "intellectual opinion" - while not providing an ounce of meaningful textual interaction - just denial of the same ?? Ya' think you might have an agenda going on here ?


My thought is this, (and this is my opinion, and I know you don't agree, and that is fine), that Paul was addressing the husband/wife relationship, because he also later mentioned childbearing, just a verse or two down.


I've already demonstrated the authorial-intentions going on here earlier in this thread relative to v. 15. What was said about it? Not a peep - simply a parroting of the same argument. And, no, the grammar, syntax, exegesis, context & plain reading of the text militate against the husband-wife scenario & this has been demonstrated directly from the biblical text itself for almost 50 pages now (e.g., I Timothy 3.14-15).


It is honestly beyond me how in the world anyone could still believe in "women-preachers" in light of the crystal-clear prohibitions of the Bible.



The reason (my opinion) that Paul is speaking of the husband/wife relationship, is because he is teaching a woman to remain under her husband's authority in the church, and not undermine it in any way.

Cont.....