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  #1111  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:21 AM
rdp rdp is offline
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pliny View Post
Here is the absurdity of this post:

You said:
"the One speaking to the apostle John, did NOT say, I have somewhat against you because a woman is teaching."

Then in the very next sentence you said:
" He said, she is teaching my servants to sin."

Like I said:
"The ONLY scripture where a woman was teaching and what do we have?
False doctrine. That is precisely the point and the same point made by Paul:
(1Ti 2:11 KJV) Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
(1Ti 2:12 KJV) But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(1Ti 2:13 KJV) For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
(1Ti 2:14 KJV) And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

The only misuse is yours. You clearly cannot understand the statement "I suffer NOT a woman to teach nor usurp authority over the man". How absurd to say that this is only at home where the wife, a word Paul could have used and didn't, then to allow that role reversal in a church setting. You would be completely out of order to take control at home or to get up and try to teach men in a church setting - feeding the flock of God. That role is the sole domain of the man. A bishop must be the husband of one wife.

This post is yet another example of why women should not be allowed to teach men...

Edited to add:
This may be shocking to you but here it is:
VWS
In silence (ἐν ἡσυχίᾳ)
See on peaceable, 1Ti_2:2. Rev. renders quietness; but the admonition concerns the behavior of women in religious assemblies. Comp. 1Co_14:34. The word is used in the sense of silence, Act_22:2 : with the broader meaning quietness in 2Th_3:12.


You see, the misuse of scripture is yours when you try to twist it to mean something that it doesn't.
Again Kittle's definition, Kittle was a Greek scholar BTW.
"Adam as the first man is mentioned in 1 Tim.2:13-14 in connection with the order of the community set out in 1 Tim. 2:1 - 3:16. In the section which deals with the right conduct of the woman in the service of God (2:9-15) the demand that she should be subordinate to man (2:12) is given as a basis in early biblical history. This establishes the supremacy of man at creation by the fact a. that he was created first (2:13), and b. that Eve was first deceived (2:14)... The order of God at creation is still His will for the community (cf Mk. 10:6).

Exactly! Even worse, the definite article translated "the" does not appear in I Timothy 2:12. Here's the actual Greek text: http://biblehub.com/text/1_timothy/2-12.htm


Here is the literal translation:


New International Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

New Living Translation
I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.

English Standard Version
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

New American Standard Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

NET Bible
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For I do not allow a woman to teach, neither to usurp over a man, but she should be quiet;

GOD'S WORD® Translation
I don't allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. Instead, she should be quiet.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For I do not allow a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over a mature man, but to be at rest.

American Standard Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.

Darby Bible Translation
but I do not suffer a woman to teach nor to exercise authority over man, but to be in quietness;

English Revised Version
But I permit not a woman to teach, nor to have dominion over a man, but to be in quietness.


Weymouth New Testament
I do not permit a woman to teach, nor have authority over a man, but she must remain silent.

World English Bible
But I don't permit a woman to teach, nor to exercise authority over a man, but to be in quietness.



She (& the rest of them) are willfully ignorant of the Scriptures & have no idea what they're talking about - & love to have it so ! Then, they attempt to correct us for "misusing Scripture" ! Knee-slapping hilarity!


I Tim. 2.11-3.15 is NOT talking about the imaginary "marriage relationship" & Paul explicitly said he was writing to Timothy to set the church affairs in order. Women preachers-teachers in the church are out of order - & so is the pastor who allows it .
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  #1112  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:02 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Are you saying GOD did not call me?
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  #1113  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:21 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

The majority of women preachers that I have known are very humble and submitted to their husbands and the elders of the church. I believe that if a woman preaches under the unbrella of her husband and the elders, she's covered. Now, if she just wants to usurp authority and has a blatant disregard for her husband and the elders of the church... there is a problem.
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  #1114  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:28 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

so true... every godly woman respects the authority of a man...I spoke yesterday at a church because the pastor invited me...we had such good results he called a service tonight and am speaking again tonight....however it was NOT because of me...it is GOD that draws...we are only His mouthpeice....
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  #1115  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:29 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

i have no problem having a pastor over me...elders over me...a husband over me...I see them as a GOD GIVEN protection....
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  #1116  
Old 02-17-2014, 12:30 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

I have been a missionary since 1968 and still talk every week to my pastor....
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  #1117  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:45 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

In Acts 18:24-26, Luke, the author of Acts, introduces his readers to Apollos. Apollos was a Jewish Christian from Alexandria. Alexandria was a renowned centre of learning in the ancient world and famous for its monumentally impressive and extensive library. Apollos is literally described by Luke as a “man of words”. This indicates that Apollos was an eloquent speaker, trained in rhetoric; or it may mean that Apollos was well read and highly educated. From Luke’s description of Apollos, both definitions fit well. Luke portrays Apollos as both an eloquent orator and as someone with a thorough (literally “powerful”) understanding of the Hebrew Scriptures. Apollos would go on to become an outstanding minister of the gospel (1 Cor 3:3-6 & 22).
Despite Apollos’ notable credentials, something was lacking in his theology. Apollos was ignorant of Christian baptism. Priscilla and Aquila recognised this lack, and as leaders of the local church, they took Apollos aside[6] and explained to him “The Way”, that is, the Christian faith, more accurately.[7]
The verb “explain” is plural in the Greek[8] indicating that both Priscilla and Aquila were involved. However, the fact that Priscilla’s name is listed first, before her husband’s in Acts 18:26, seems to indicate that Priscilla was more active in giving the explanation than Aquila.[9]
Teach-didaskō
Many different verbs[10] are commonly used in the New Testament in the context of someone communicating aspects of the gospel message and the Christian faith. Much of this type of communication would include some degree of teaching and instruction.
Some people quibble about the meaning of the word “explain” (ektithēmi) used in Acts 18:26. They claim that it does not mean “teach”. Didaskō is the Greek word usually translated as “teach” or “instruct”. BDAG (p241) defines didaskō as “(1) to tell someone what to do, tell, instruct; . . . and (2) to provide instruction in a formal or informal setting, teach.”
In chapter 19 of Acts – the chapter following the passage about Priscilla and Aquila’s “explaining” – Luke writes about Paul’s three month speaking ministry in the synagogue at Ephesus. Luke uses the cognates of three different verbs in reference to Paul’s speaking about the Kingdom of God: (1) parrēsiazomai-speak boldly/freely, (2) dialegomai-discuss/reason and (3) peithō-persuade (Acts 19:8-9). Luke does not specifically use the word teach-didaskō here, and yet there can be no doubt that during those three months at Ephesus Paul did in fact teach. He taught using discussion, reasoning and persuasion.
It is unreasonable to suggest that Paul’s ministry in Acts 19:8-9 did not include teaching simply because Luke did not use the word didaskō. It is equally unreasonable to suggest that Priscilla and Aquila’s explanation to Apollos did not include teaching just because Luke did not use the word didaskō. Priscilla and Aquila did in fact teach Christian doctrine to Apollos. This becomes clear when you look at the meaning of “explain” (epitithēmi) and the circumstances where Luke uses it elsewhere in Acts.
Explain-ektithēmi
Luke is the only New Testament author to use the Greek word ektithēmi. He uses it four times, and only in the book of Acts. There are two basic meanings for the word ektithēmi. In its most literal sense it means to “place outside” or “expose”. In this sense, BDAG (p310) gives the first definition of ektithēmi as “withdraw support or protection from”. Luke uses the word in this sense in Acts 7:21 where he recounts Stephen speaking about the baby Moses who was placed outside and left exposed on the Nile.
In a more metaphorical sense, ektithēmi means “to put forth, declare, explain”. (Perschbacher 1990:131)[11] In this sense, BDAG (p310) gives the second definition of ektithēmi as “to convey information by careful elaboration”. This sounds a lot like teaching to me. Luke uses the word in this sense three times in Acts: of Peter in Acts 11:4, of Priscilla and Aquila in Acts 18:26, and of Paul in Acts 28:23. It is important to note that there is nothing at all trivial in these three instances where “explain” (ektithēmi) is used.
Peter’s Explaining in Acts 11:4
But Peter began and explained it to them point by point, saying . . . Acts 11:4 (NIV, my emphasis)
In Acts chapter 10, we read that the very first gentiles had become Christians and were baptised through Peter’s ministry. The apostles and brothers in Judea were disturbed by this turn of events and when Peter went to Jerusalem they “took issue with him” (Acts 11:3 NIV). Peter responds to their criticism, and in Acts 11:5-17 he explains (ektithēmi) the remarkable events that he had personally been involved with, “point by point” (NIV), or ”in an orderly sequence” (NASB). Peter does not merely relate his recent experiences, he persuasively presents his own conclusion (Acts 11:17-18). Peter’s speech about the inclusion of the gentiles in God’s plan for salvation was a huge turning point for the Christian church which up to that point was completely Jewish. And Luke uses the word ektithēmi in this context.
Paul’s Explaining in Acts 28:23
When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening. Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe. Acts 28:23-24 (NASB, my emphasis)
In Luke’s final use of the word ektithēmi we read that Paul was explaining, testifying and trying to persuade many people about Jesus using the Old Testament scriptures. While Luke again does not use the word didaskō in this passage, we can see that Paul was in fact teaching his visitors about Jesus.
An Objection to Priscilla “Teaching”
Daniel B. Wallace disagrees that Priscilla “taught” Apollos. In his article Did Priscilla “Teach” Apollos? An Examination of the Meaning of ἐκτίθημι in Acts 18:26, he writes:
“The word [ektithēmi] is actually somewhat of a vanilla term, basically meaning “lay out,” or “expose.” It can be used in various contexts, but in collocation with information being passed on it tends to be restricted to simple explanation without concomitant urging or rhetorical persuasiveness.”
It is unclear why Wallace regards ektithēmi as a “vanilla term”, especially considering how Luke uses the word in Acts. It is highly unlikely that Peter told his audience the amazing events recounted in Acts 11:5-17 dispassionately, with no desire or intention to change the minds of those present. And in Acts 28:23 there is unmistakable evidence of “rhetorical persuasiveness”.
Wallace also states that:
“From the primary data and the lexical tools that interpret [ektithēmi], there was seen to be almost no unusual meaning, virtually no sense that could be viewed as approaching didaskō and its cognates in the NT. . . the force of ektithēmi never seemed to transgress into the realm of exhortation.”
I agree that it is a straightforward exercise to translate ektithēmi into English as there are “almost no unusual meanings”; however it is difficult to understand why Wallace believes its meaning cannot be viewed as approaching didaskō. “Explain” can often be practically synonymous in meaning to “teach” and “instruct”, whether in English or Greek. Furthermore, it is unclear why Wallace implies that didaskō involves exhortation and ektithēmi doesn’t.
Conclusion
Typically, most English dictionaries define explain as “make plain and comprehensible”. This is surely one of the major aims in teaching. I would be very happy if my teaching was described as explaining. To discount Priscilla and Aquila’s “explaining” as true teaching simply because Luke didn’t use the word didaskō is unwarranted; especially when considering the meaning[12] and context of ektithēmi in the book of Acts.
Did Priscilla, with her husband, teach Apollos “the Way of God more accurately”, including the doctrine of Christian baptism? Did a woman, Priscilla, teach a man, Apollos? Yes, she did.[13]
As church leaders, there would have been many occasions for Priscilla and Aquila to teach, either informally or in church meetings. Neither Luke nor Paul give any hint of censure or disapproval about Priscilla teaching Apollos, or her role as a church leader. In light of the fact that Priscilla did instruct a man in Christian doctrine, the blanket ban by some, of women teaching men, must be reassessed and redressed.
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  #1118  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:46 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

Endnotes
[1] “Paul always refers to her as ‘Prisca’, the more respectful form of her name; Luke always adds the diminutive ending in ‘Priscilla’.” (Payne 2009:64)
[2] The Scriptures which mention Priscilla and Aquila:
There he [Paul] met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them (Acts 18:2-3, NIV).

Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sisters and sailed for Syria, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila . . . They arrived at Ephesus, where he [Paul] left them [Priscilla and Aquila]. . . . (Acts 18:18-19). Some translations such as the NIV repeat the names in Acts 18:19 for clarity, but the names are not repeated in the Greek texts.

He [Apollos] began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him The Way more accurately (Acts 18:26).

Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co- workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them (Romans 16:3-4).

The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house (1 Corinthians 16:19).

Greet Priscilla and Aquila . . . (2Timothy 4:19)
Non-Biblical and speculative ideas about Priscilla and Aquila:
Tradition holds that Priscilla and Aquila were both martyred; however the accounts of their martyrdom are vague, sketchy and contradictory.
Some theologians, such as Adolph von Harnack and Ruth Hoppin, speculate that Priscilla may have been the author of the book of Hebrews. An interesting article about this subject, here.
In the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Aquila and a man named Nicetas are listed as the first bishops of Asia.
An Orthodox Church tradition states that Aquila was one of Jesus’ 70 disciples in Luke 10:1-24. (This is unlikely.)
[3] Twice Paul refers to Priscilla and Aquila as his ministry colleagues (“co-workers”) (Rom 16:3-5; 2 Tim 4:19).
[4] Seutonius wrote that Claudius had expelled all the Jews (which included Priscilla and Aquila) from Rome in AD49. Priscilla and Aquila later returned to Rome (probably from Ephesus) after the death of Claudias.
[5] Aquila, Priscilla and Paul were all tentmakers by profession. During Paul’s third Missionary tour, Paul stayed with Priscilla and Aquila at Ephesus for three years. They were all still living in Ephesus when Paul passed on Aquila and Priscilla’s greeting to the Corinthian church in 1 Corinthians 16:19. Aquila and Priscilla returned to Rome by AD57 where they became church leaders again. Paul had no problem with a godly, capable woman being a church leader.
[6] The Greek does not specify that Priscilla and Aquila invited Apollos into their home, which is what the NIV translation indicates (Acts 18:26 NIV). The verb proslambanō in Acts 18:26 is the same verb in Mark 8:32 where Peter took Jesus aside. This verb is used in a variety of ways and can mean: ”to take to oneself, assume, take as a companion or associate … to take food … to receive kindly or hospitably, admit to one’s own society and friendship …” (Perschbacher 1990:354)
[7] In its earliest days, Christianity was often referred to as “The Way”. (See Acts 9:2; 19:9,23; 24:14,22; etc.)
[8] Exethento (from ektithēmi) 3rd person plural aorist middle indicative.
[9] The order of Priscilla’s and Aquila’s names is significant. In his account of the joint ministry of the Paul and Barnabas, Luke switches the order of the names of Paul and Barnabas, listing first whoever was more well-known or more active in ministry at that particular time. (See Acts 13:7, 42-50; 14:1, 3, 12, 14, 23; 15:2, 12, 22, 25, 35-36.)
[10] All of the following words are used in the New Testament to describe the transmission and teaching of the gospel and Christian doctrine: Parrēsiazomai means “speak openly, boldly or freely”; peithō means “persuade”; martureō means “testify” or “bear witness”; legō or laleō simply means “speak” or “talk”; dialegomai means “discuss” or “reason”; parakaleō means “exhort” or “encourage”, keryssō means “proclaim” or “preach”; euaggelizomai means “proclaim the good news or gospel”; ektithēmi means “put forth” or “explain”; disdaskō means “teach”; etc.
[11] Strong defines ektithēmi as “declare” and “expound”. (Strong’s number 1620)
[12] As previously stated, BDAG (p310) defines ektithēmi as “to convey information by careful elaboration”.
[13] King Lemuel’s mother is another Bible woman who taught a man. The teaching of this woman has been recorded in Scripture and thus has the authority of Scripture. [More on King Lemuel's mother here.] (copied)
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  #1119  
Old 02-17-2014, 01:48 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

My friend of many years ago Sister Mary Williams told me she felt that Prisicilla wrote the book of Hebrews...whether she did or not she was highly learned and very smart.
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  #1120  
Old 02-17-2014, 02:44 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

The post, which is a copy and paste from this site http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-ge...teach-apollos/ without proper acknowledgment, is yet one more object lesson as to why women should not teach or preach.

The great lengths that they go to in an attempt to justify what scripture clearly says should not happen and as we will see did not happen here, in spite of the copy and pasting of someone else's thought.

It has been stated multiple times that women can and should witness. This is what is clearly happening here. Also, it should be pointed out that she was not alone for there was in fact a he there as well. Even if we assume, and that is what this is an assumption, that Priscilla took the lead role it is a role of witnessing not feeding the flock of God. Some just can't seem to understand the difference.

Apollos was a disciple of John (Acts 18:25). We know factually that he was "mighty" in the scriptures (Acts 18:24). So what was he lacking knowledge in? It was not the scripture! The only thing he was lacking in was who fulfilled the cry of John:
(Joh 1:26 KJV) John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
(Joh 1:27 KJV) He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

Who fulfilled this? That is what Apollos needed to know. This is what Aquila and Priscilla explained. Notice as well that this was after synagogue not during synagogue (Acts 18:26). They took him aside. It would have been out of order for either of them to disrupt the service and especially Priscilla since women were not allowed to speak at synagogue. What they helped Apollos understand was not a long drawn out discipleship Bible study rather it was simply explaining how Jesus Christ is the one who came after John who was mightier than John. They witnessed to him about the fulfillment of what he already believed. Most importantly this was done outside the synagogue, likely in their own house.

All of the above verbose commentary does absolutely nothing to advance the cause of women preachers. Instead all it does is illustrate that women should not feed the flock of God. Here, a well known woman seeks to advance her cause by arguing about a moment of witnessing indicating a fundamental lack of knowledge concerning the difference between witnessing and feeding God's flock, preaching and teaching.

This fundamental lack of knowledge has been seen consistently over and over in spite of the many times it has been said that women should witness and seek to be used in the gifts of the Spirit yet still there remains a stubborn willful ignorance to the facts. We even saw earlier where she made up her own facts that are patently false - the idea that Paul would never quote from the Talmud or the writer of Corinthians was quoting the Talmud (something to that effect) is patently false because the Talmud, specifically the Mishna was not began until the end of the 2nd century or the early third century.
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