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  #1151  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:15 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

We'll, I don't know what our newsletters promote that is not up to par...
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  #1152  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:46 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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We'll, I don't know what our newsletters promote that is not up to par...
Women preachers.
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  #1153  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:52 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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We'll, I don't know what our newsletters promote that is not up to par...
Dear Sister Alvear

You just keep on doing your ministry, there will always be those who you can not please or make peace with, unless you are willing to do exactly as they say.

They have an imperious attitude, that if you do not believe exactly as they do, you are not even saved.

They are not willing to go to Brazil and minister to the lost yet they weaken the hands of those who do.

Do not worry, just keep on ministering and following Jesus.
We are all sinners saved by grace, and none of us is perfect or have perfect theology.
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  #1154  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:53 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
In Acts 18:24-26, Luke, the author of Acts, introduces his readers to Apollos. Apollos was a Jewish Christian from Alexandria. Alexandria was a renowned centre of learning in the ancient world and famous for its monumentally impressive and extensive library. Apollos is literally described by Luke as a “man of words”. This indicates that Apollos was an eloquent speaker, trained in rhetoric; or it may mean that Apollos was well read and highly educated. From Luke’s description of Apollos, both definitions fit well. Luke portrays Apollos as both an eloquent orator and as someone with a thorough (literally “powerful”) understanding of the Hebrew Scriptures. Apollos would go on to become an outstanding minister of the gospel (1 Cor 3:3-6 & 22).
Despite Apollos’ notable credentials, something was lacking in his theology. Apollos was ignorant of Christian baptism. Priscilla and Aquila recognised this lack, and as leaders of the local church, they took Apollos aside[6] and explained to him “The Way”, that is, the Christian faith, more accurately.[7]
The verb “explain” is plural in the Greek[8] indicating that both Priscilla and Aquila were involved. However, the fact that Priscilla’s name is listed first, before her husband’s in Acts 18:26, seems to indicate that Priscilla was more active in giving the explanation than Aquila.[9]
Teach-didaskō
Many different verbs[10] are commonly used in the New Testament in the context of someone communicating aspects of the gospel message and the Christian faith. Much of this type of communication would include some degree of teaching and instruction.
Some people quibble about the meaning of the word “explain” (ektithēmi) used in Acts 18:26. They claim that it does not mean “teach”. Didaskō is the Greek word usually translated as “teach” or “instruct”. BDAG (p241) defines didaskō as “(1) to tell someone what to do, tell, instruct; . . . and (2) to provide instruction in a formal or informal setting, teach.”
In chapter 19 of Acts – the chapter following the passage about Priscilla and Aquila’s “explaining” – Luke writes about Paul’s three month speaking ministry in the synagogue at Ephesus. Luke uses the cognates of three different verbs in reference to Paul’s speaking about the Kingdom of God: (1) parrēsiazomai-speak boldly/freely, (2) dialegomai-discuss/reason and (3) peithō-persuade (Acts 19:8-9). Luke does not specifically use the word teach-didaskō here, and yet there can be no doubt that during those three months at Ephesus Paul did in fact teach. He taught using discussion, reasoning and persuasion.
It is unreasonable to suggest that Paul’s ministry in Acts 19:8-9 did not include teaching simply because Luke did not use the word didaskō. It is equally unreasonable to suggest that Priscilla and Aquila’s explanation to Apollos did not include teaching just because Luke did not use the word didaskō. Priscilla and Aquila did in fact teach Christian doctrine to Apollos. This becomes clear when you look at the meaning of “explain” (epitithēmi) and the circumstances where Luke uses it elsewhere in Acts.
Explain-ektithēmi
Luke is the only New Testament author to use the Greek word ektithēmi. He uses it four times, and only in the book of Acts. There are two basic meanings for the word ektithēmi. In its most literal sense it means to “place outside” or “expose”. In this sense, BDAG (p310) gives the first definition of ektithēmi as “withdraw support or protection from”. Luke uses the word in this sense in Acts 7:21 where he recounts Stephen speaking about the baby Moses who was placed outside and left exposed on the Nile.
In a more metaphorical sense, ektithēmi means “to put forth, declare, explain”. (Perschbacher 1990:131)[11] In this sense, BDAG (p310) gives the second definition of ektithēmi as “to convey information by careful elaboration”. This sounds a lot like teaching to me. Luke uses the word in this sense three times in Acts: of Peter in Acts 11:4, of Priscilla and Aquila in Acts 18:26, and of Paul in Acts 28:23. It is important to note that there is nothing at all trivial in these three instances where “explain” (ektithēmi) is used.
Peter’s Explaining in Acts 11:4
But Peter began and explained it to them point by point, saying . . . Acts 11:4 (NIV, my emphasis)
In Acts chapter 10, we read that the very first gentiles had become Christians and were baptised through Peter’s ministry. The apostles and brothers in Judea were disturbed by this turn of events and when Peter went to Jerusalem they “took issue with him” (Acts 11:3 NIV). Peter responds to their criticism, and in Acts 11:5-17 he explains (ektithēmi) the remarkable events that he had personally been involved with, “point by point” (NIV), or ”in an orderly sequence” (NASB). Peter does not merely relate his recent experiences, he persuasively presents his own conclusion (Acts 11:17-18). Peter’s speech about the inclusion of the gentiles in God’s plan for salvation was a huge turning point for the Christian church which up to that point was completely Jewish. And Luke uses the word ektithēmi in this context.
Paul’s Explaining in Acts 28:23
When they had set a day for Paul, they came to him at his lodging in large numbers; and he was explaining to them by solemnly testifying about the kingdom of God and trying to persuade them concerning Jesus, from both the Law of Moses and from the Prophets, from morning until evening. Some were being persuaded by the things spoken, but others would not believe. Acts 28:23-24 (NASB, my emphasis)
In Luke’s final use of the word ektithēmi we read that Paul was explaining, testifying and trying to persuade many people about Jesus using the Old Testament scriptures. While Luke again does not use the word didaskō in this passage, we can see that Paul was in fact teaching his visitors about Jesus.
An Objection to Priscilla “Teaching”
Daniel B. Wallace disagrees that Priscilla “taught” Apollos. In his article Did Priscilla “Teach” Apollos? An Examination of the Meaning of ἐκτίθημι in Acts 18:26, he writes:
“The word [ektithēmi] is actually somewhat of a vanilla term, basically meaning “lay out,” or “expose.” It can be used in various contexts, but in collocation with information being passed on it tends to be restricted to simple explanation without concomitant urging or rhetorical persuasiveness.”
It is unclear why Wallace regards ektithēmi as a “vanilla term”, especially considering how Luke uses the word in Acts. It is highly unlikely that Peter told his audience the amazing events recounted in Acts 11:5-17 dispassionately, with no desire or intention to change the minds of those present. And in Acts 28:23 there is unmistakable evidence of “rhetorical persuasiveness”.
Wallace also states that:
“From the primary data and the lexical tools that interpret [ektithēmi], there was seen to be almost no unusual meaning, virtually no sense that could be viewed as approaching didaskō and its cognates in the NT. . . the force of ektithēmi never seemed to transgress into the realm of exhortation.”
I agree that it is a straightforward exercise to translate ektithēmi into English as there are “almost no unusual meanings”; however it is difficult to understand why Wallace believes its meaning cannot be viewed as approaching didaskō. “Explain” can often be practically synonymous in meaning to “teach” and “instruct”, whether in English or Greek. Furthermore, it is unclear why Wallace implies that didaskō involves exhortation and ektithēmi doesn’t.
Conclusion
Typically, most English dictionaries define explain as “make plain and comprehensible”. This is surely one of the major aims in teaching. I would be very happy if my teaching was described as explaining. To discount Priscilla and Aquila’s “explaining” as true teaching simply because Luke didn’t use the word didaskō is unwarranted; especially when considering the meaning[12] and context of ektithēmi in the book of Acts.
Did Priscilla, with her husband, teach Apollos “the Way of God more accurately”, including the doctrine of Christian baptism? Did a woman, Priscilla, teach a man, Apollos? Yes, she did.[13]
As church leaders, there would have been many occasions for Priscilla and Aquila to teach, either informally or in church meetings. Neither Luke nor Paul give any hint of censure or disapproval about Priscilla teaching Apollos, or her role as a church leader. In light of the fact that Priscilla did instruct a man in Christian doctrine, the blanket ban by some, of women teaching men, must be reassessed and redressed.

Ummm, so now every time a husband & wife give a home Bible study - the wife is automatically to be considered in the set-in office of the 5-fold ministry ?


And, as usual, you once again commit the fallacy of meshing contexts - which has been explained to you over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over & over......& over.


*Sigh*.....Here we go again.
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  #1155  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:53 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
Endnotes
[1] “Paul always refers to her as ‘Prisca’, the more respectful form of her name; Luke always adds the diminutive ending in ‘Priscilla’.” (Payne 2009:64)
[2] The Scriptures which mention Priscilla and Aquila:
There he [Paul] met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them, and because he was a tentmaker as they were, he stayed and worked with them (Acts 18:2-3, NIV).

Paul stayed on in Corinth for some time. Then he left the brothers and sisters and sailed for Syria, accompanied by Priscilla and Aquila . . . They arrived at Ephesus, where he [Paul] left them [Priscilla and Aquila]. . . . (Acts 18:18-19). Some translations such as the NIV repeat the names in Acts 18:19 for clarity, but the names are not repeated in the Greek texts.

He [Apollos] began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him The Way more accurately (Acts 18:26).

Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my co- workers in Christ Jesus. They risked their lives for me. Not only I but all the churches of the Gentiles are grateful to them (Romans 16:3-4).

The churches in the province of Asia send you greetings. Aquila and Priscilla greet you warmly in the Lord, and so does the church that meets at their house (1 Corinthians 16:19).

Greet Priscilla and Aquila . . . (2Timothy 4:19)
Non-Biblical and speculative ideas about Priscilla and Aquila:
Tradition holds that Priscilla and Aquila were both martyred; however the accounts of their martyrdom are vague, sketchy and contradictory.
Some theologians, such as Adolph von Harnack and Ruth Hoppin, speculate that Priscilla may have been the author of the book of Hebrews. An interesting article about this subject, here.
In the Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Aquila and a man named Nicetas are listed as the first bishops of Asia.
An Orthodox Church tradition states that Aquila was one of Jesus’ 70 disciples in Luke 10:1-24. (This is unlikely.)
[3] Twice Paul refers to Priscilla and Aquila as his ministry colleagues (“co-workers”) (Rom 16:3-5; 2 Tim 4:19).
[4] Seutonius wrote that Claudius had expelled all the Jews (which included Priscilla and Aquila) from Rome in AD49. Priscilla and Aquila later returned to Rome (probably from Ephesus) after the death of Claudias.
[5] Aquila, Priscilla and Paul were all tentmakers by profession. During Paul’s third Missionary tour, Paul stayed with Priscilla and Aquila at Ephesus for three years. They were all still living in Ephesus when Paul passed on Aquila and Priscilla’s greeting to the Corinthian church in 1 Corinthians 16:19. Aquila and Priscilla returned to Rome by AD57 where they became church leaders again. Paul had no problem with a godly, capable woman being a church leader.
[6] The Greek does not specify that Priscilla and Aquila invited Apollos into their home, which is what the NIV translation indicates (Acts 18:26 NIV). The verb proslambanō in Acts 18:26 is the same verb in Mark 8:32 where Peter took Jesus aside. This verb is used in a variety of ways and can mean: ”to take to oneself, assume, take as a companion or associate … to take food … to receive kindly or hospitably, admit to one’s own society and friendship …” (Perschbacher 1990:354)
[7] In its earliest days, Christianity was often referred to as “The Way”. (See Acts 9:2; 19:9,23; 24:14,22; etc.)
[8] Exethento (from ektithēmi) 3rd person plural aorist middle indicative.
[9] The order of Priscilla’s and Aquila’s names is significant. In his account of the joint ministry of the Paul and Barnabas, Luke switches the order of the names of Paul and Barnabas, listing first whoever was more well-known or more active in ministry at that particular time. (See Acts 13:7, 42-50; 14:1, 3, 12, 14, 23; 15:2, 12, 22, 25, 35-36.)


I see, like Phoebe was Paul's "ruler" - Priscilla was Aquila's "ruler" ! You have already been shown that the Greek text evenly splits the order of their names....Guess they were flip-flopping back & forth who was "more active in the ministry"....So silly.



[10] All of the following words are used in the New Testament to describe the transmission and teaching of the gospel and Christian doctrine: Parrēsiazomai means “speak openly, boldly or freely”; peithō means “persuade”; martureō means “testify” or “bear witness”; legō or laleō simply means “speak” or “talk”; dialegomai means “discuss” or “reason”; parakaleō means “exhort” or “encourage”, keryssō means “proclaim” or “preach”; euaggelizomai means “proclaim the good news or gospel”; ektithēmi means “put forth” or “explain”; disdaskō means “teach”; etc.
[11] Strong defines ektithēmi as “declare” and “expound”. (Strong’s number 1620)


Yea', & "Strong's" also defines the Greek verb "to speak" in I Cor. 14.34 as "P-R-E-A-C-H"....Nothing like a lil' selectivity in your sources !



[12] As previously stated, BDAG (p310) defines ektithēmi as “to convey information by careful elaboration”.
[13] King Lemuel’s mother is another Bible woman who taught a man. The teaching of this woman has been recorded in Scripture and thus has the authority of Scripture. [More on King Lemuel's mother here.] (copied)

Still waiting on the passage that demonstrates a women instructing men out of the Scriptures:___________? Been asking you to fill that blank in for many years now !



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My friend of many years ago Sister Mary Williams told me she felt that Prisicilla wrote the book of Hebrews...whether she did or not she was highly learned and very smart.

Any speculation y'all can possibly concoct you do it. Hmmm, maybe Anna wrote Hebrews - or, maybe it was Herodotus, or maybe Deborah was raised from the dead to write Hebrews ?


Plumb silly.....

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  #1156  
Old 02-17-2014, 09:57 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Although women were not considered reliable witnesses in a legal matter, Jesus considered them to be valid witnesses (Luke 24:9–11). Indeed, it was to women that He gave the responsibility of being the first to testify to His resurrection. Many of Jesus’ parables and illustrations contain examples with which women would particularly identify: the lost coin (15:8–10), yeast and bread (13:20–21), childbirth and labor (John 16:21). Jesus demonstrated unusual sensitivity and compassion toward women and performed miracles for them. He healed their sick and raised their dead to life (Luke 4:38–39; 8:40–56; 13:10–17; John 11:1–44). Rather than condemning them for even flagrant sexual sin, He forgave them and offered them new life (John 4:1–42; 8:1–11).

Yea, every person who tells someone of the Resurrection of Christ is now to automatically be placed in the NT teaching-preaching Eldership !
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:01 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
Priscilla, along with her husband, taught a man.

Now, it would seem that if Paul really believed and taught that a woman should not teach a man, does not it make good sense that Priscilla, having him around him both day and night for one year and six months (Acts 18:1 1), would have known that it was not the perfect plan of God to have done such a "hideous" deed? Would not she have backed off and either verbally or quietly made it known to her husband that to explain the Gospel to a man was her husband's job alone?

"Aquila, go talk to him man to man. You know that is Paul's way. That's the perfect way. I'll go home and throw something in the microwave."

No, the opposite is true. Priscilla caught the true spirit of Paul, which was the true spirit of God. In Christ, there is no male or female. The cross brings equality to all. She was accustomed to ministering and working alongside her husband, and they both brought a life-changing word to him.

Later, Paul referred to them in the last chapters of Romans and I Corinthians. In Romans, he puts Priscilla first; in I Corinthians, Aquila. They evidently had an equal anointing and ability to teach, a model of husband and wife ministry. Never do we hear him saying something like, "Now church, beware. Priscilla likes to teach men. And you know I don't condone that." No, he gave her honor and recognized the validity of her ministry, even stating that all the churches of the Gentiles gave thanks for her (Rom. 16:4). He gave them equal footing with himself, calling them fellow laborers. (copied)

Wowsie - Not only was Phoebe the Apostle Paul's "ruler" - Now Priscilla is on "equal footing" with the Apostle Paul - all because she is mentioned with her husband & contributed to a home Bible study !


This is just knee-slapping hilarity at this point - better to laugh than cry !
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:03 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Was Barak "deceived" when he took orders from Deborah? (See Judg. 4:14.) Did baby Jesus come under a harmful influence when Anna prophesied over Him? (See Luke 2:36-38.) Was Apollos spiritually emasculated when he submitted to the teaching of Priscilla? (See Acts 18:26.) Of course not!

And which of these examples demonstrate a woman expounding from the Scriptures to men in the church:__________?




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Old 02-17-2014, 10:07 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Jesus specified – “These signs shall follow THEM THAT BELIEVE”.
This includes both the sexes....
And? What on earth does tongue-talking & praying for the sick have to do with teaching men in the church ?
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Old 02-17-2014, 10:14 PM
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Re: End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

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Priscilla and her husband did NOT teach in the synagogue. Every time you post you prove you cannot discern fundamental concepts. Again you confuse witnessing with the preaching and teaching associated with feeding God's flock. Also, you fail to recognize that Apollos was ALREADY MIGHTY in the scripture. What he needed to know was simply that Jesus was the person John pointed to. Your jumping to conclusions and wishful thinking are amazing indeed. They, like all Christians, are fellow-laborers. To make a doctrine about Priscilla's name being first is another reason why women should sit down and listen. BTW Paul did not give her equal footing with him. He was an apostle she most definitely was NOT!

A lot of people were grateful for Tabitha as well (Acts 9 you should read that) but that does not mean she was an apostle and on equal footing with Paul or Peter. Good grief. The complete lack of basic hermeneutics is why women should not be allowed in a pulpit.

Exactly!


Let's see, we've been told that Phoebe was the Apostle Paul's "ruler," Priscilla was on "equal footing" with the Apostle Paul, wives should never instruct their husbands - but it's perfectly fine for them to instruct other women's husbands, it's a "lie" to say that the Bible forbids women from teaching men in the church (when, actually, the "lie" is to say it doesn't!), etc., etc., etc.

You're right - this thread serves as an excellent example of why women should not be in positions of authority in the NT church !
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