End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[rdp]

Besides, how can anyone "preach" without referencing the Scriptures? And this is EXACTLY what women are forbidden to do in the church (i.e., exposit from the Scriptures to men - http://biblehub.com/greek/1321.htm).


In fact, the NASB even translates the verb "teach" (διδάσκω) as "preach" in one place -clearly demonstrating overlap in the two terms.


Further - "When Jesus had finished giving instructions to His twelve disciples, He departed from there to teach and preach in their cities" (Matthew 11:1 --- & there innumerable more identical examples).


Clearly He did not cease doing one while doing the other.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by RJR

In regards to Eph 4:11 being preachers you responded...



All that would be necessary is to show where an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher ever preached. Yes, they are preachers! Truly, I amazed at the straws that many will grasp for instead of embracing what the Bible says...

A woman is not speak in the church, which has been clearly demonstrated to be in the sense of teaching and exercising authority over the man.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RJR

In regards to Eph 4:11 being preachers you responded...

All that would be necessary is to show where an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher ever preached. Yes, they are preachers! Truly, I amazed at the straws that many will grasp for instead of embracing what the Bible says...

You're implying motive on my part that doesn't exist. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not arguing for the right to preach. However, I respect many women who have spoken to the entire church with the permission of their pastor, husband and/or elders, and I don't see how they are out of line with scripture since they are still subordinate. I've been in the church since I was born, and I have seen women who fell into both categories. Usually it's obvious to everyone when a woman is out of line and when she's acting in subjection to her own authorities.

Your take seems to be that teaching itself is equal to usurping authority. It seems to me that the usurping authority is what makes the teaching a negative thing. When a woman takes charge and acts of her own accord, out from under the authority of her elders and/or husband, then she "usurps authority" and has no right to teach.

My point with Eph 4:11 is only to say that a person can fulfill some offices without having to preach. For instance, a man could pastor a church or be a deacon without preaching. A man can be an elder without preaching. A man can teach and not preach. On the other hand, looking at the Strong's definitions, it appears to me that teaching is expounding on scripture, doctrine and moral teaching, while preaching is a more generic term proclaiming the Gospel/good news and would seem to be something we are all supposed to do. So maybe all Christians must preach, but only some will teach?

A woman is not speak in the church, which has been clearly demonstrated to be in the sense of teaching and exercising authority over the man.

If every man present is fine with it and a woman's authority figures are asking her to speak, then how is she usurping authority over anyone? What about in a more intimate setting, such as staff meetings? Our pastor sometimes asks the Sunday School teachers to prepare a devotional for all of the other teachers, some of whom are men. When we have our quarterly meetings, the teachers take turns sharing devotionals. How are you drawing a line between what is appropriate and what isn't, scripturally speaking?

Also, the fact that other authors used the words teach and preach interchangeably doesn't negate the fact that Paul only mentioned teaching, which has a distinct definition in the Greek. Adding preaching to the mix may be a valid conclusion, following a certain logic, but it definitely has to be inferred.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by rdp

Okay -will do. Guess you just kinda' got caught in the cross-fire.


You have been more respectful than the others (though a lil' snarky at times).


You do seem more sincere than most - My apologies.

THANK you for putting down your shotgun.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Your take seems to be that teaching itself is equal to usurping authority. It seems to me that the usurping authority is what makes the teaching a negative thing. When a woman takes charge and acts of her own accord, out from under the authority of her elders and/or husband, then she "usurps authority" and has no right to teach.

But, the dependent clause translated "nor to exercise authority over a man" is connected by a Greek negating disjunctive conjunction (οὐδέ) - meaning it serves to continue a previous negation - which is lexically defined as:


"3761 /oudé ("neither indeed," "nor indeed") introduces a statement that is negated factually and deductively (it occurs 137 times in the NT). That is, the negation rules out (invalidates) the statement that precedes it, and what naturally extends from it. This is analogous to the following: Because 100 is not enough, then neither are 90, 80, or 70 because they are all included in 100. Thus if "A" (100 in the previous example) is invalid, so is what necessarily follows (statement "B" – 90, 80, 70)" (http://biblehub.com/greek/3761.htm).

My point with Eph 4:11 is only to say that a person can fulfill some offices without having to preach. For instance, a man could pastor a church or be a deacon without preaching. A man can be an elder without preaching. A man can teach and not preach.

On what biblical-textual basis do you assert that a man can pastor a church & yet not preach? Or, that a man can teach & not preach....esp. since "teaching" is lexically defined as "to exposit from the Scriptures" (which it would be virtually impossible to not do while "preaching")?

On the other hand, looking at the Strong's definitions, it appears to me that teaching is expounding on scripture, doctrine and moral teaching, while preaching is a more generic term proclaiming the Gospel/good news and would seem to be something we are all supposed to do. So maybe all Christians must preach, but only some will teach?

But, since you've appealed to Strong's (which is actually a poor source) - here's what he has to say about the Greek verb translated as "speak" in I Cor. 14.34 - "Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak. They should be submissive, just as the law says."



"Preach, say, speak. A prolonged form of an otherwise obsolete verb; to talk, i.e. Utter words -- Preach, say, speak (after), talk, tell, utter (http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2980.htm).



Will you also accept Dr. Strong's primary definition here?



P.S. - Sorry about the posting style again ....Tired & I'm a creature of habit. Check back in later tomorrow night to continue the fun - church tomorrow .

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by RJR

In regards to Eph 4:11 being preachers you responded...



All that would be necessary is to show where an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor and teacher ever preached. Yes, they are preachers! Truly, I amazed at the straws that many will grasp for instead of embracing what the Bible says...

A woman is not speak in the church, which has been clearly demonstrated to be in the sense of teaching and exercising authority over the man.

They probably also slept but that does not make sleepers one of the Five Fold Ministry.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Are you suggesting that teachers are also preachers?

Teaching isn't preaching, although I do believe preaching is teaching.

If they are the same then when someone is teaching "Into His Marvelous Light" to their co-worker does that mean he or she is a preacher?

Would that pretty much make us all preachers then?

Tit 2:3 Let the aged women likewise be in reverent behavior, not slanderers, not enslaved by much wine, teachers of good;

[shazeep]

So then, a woman teaching is by def a woman preacher the end.

"Besides, how can anyone "preach" without referencing the Scriptures?"
um, by shutting up and demonstrating? Still REFing tho, i guess.

"He departed from there to teach and preach in their cities"
("Clearly He did not cease doing one while doing the other.")
yet, just as clearly, there is a delineation going on there.
(wadr, the 'snarky' comment was pure comedy, not to reopen a hopefully closed can)

um, and the thing is very confusing, looks like shaking the head.

Miss Bratt, wow, i got you on follow now, as i'm looking for my next Right Pastor

One may apply several definitions, obviously, to all of these terms; which makes the mirror, i guess. seeking is required to find God's definition, and make the seeing darkly recede. there is absolutely no reason that

Preaching cannot also be translated Demonstrating, Teaching, LECTURING...
(and Preacher, the way we grasp the term now, seems best fit to Pharisee, Sadduccee; just sayin')
(i mean, have any of Your Eminences even been ostracized? hmm?)

Talking can also be Chattering...

How you gonna improve on You will know them by their fruit?

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

They probably also slept but that does not make sleepers one of the Five Fold Ministry.

Wow, this is really powerful. I hope you posted this in your sleep.

[shazeep]

aaand he's back

whenever my dad tries to impart some well-intentioned advice at me, i generally run and try to prove it a lie; and now i know why

pot calling out the kettle tho. peace