Luke, weve been through this already..our threads on "the man Christ Jesus", show what I believe.
Jesus was "completely" human with his own body, soul and human spirit. Just like us. A "qualified human being. No "add ons".
He never claimed to be God, but the Holy Ghost "inside" him(or the Father), definitely claimed to be God. He was simply a "begotten"(human) son of almighty God. And God(Father) was in his body. The Father was (in) him and spoke (through) him and did miracles (through) him.
The Father(God) raised Jesus from the dead. And the fullness of the Godhead(all of what God consists of) now dwells in him BODILY(glorified-OMNIPRESENT BODY)...ALL OF GOD IS INSIDE OF JESUS...Jesus is not in the Godhead, but the Godhead is "INSIDE" JESUS (BODILY)(thats how Jesus is omnipresent now),Col.2:9...
.NOW THAT IS NOT "DENYING" the DEITY of JESUS.in any way, shape or form. It makes Jesus "ALL" God, not just a "part"(co-equal partner) of a trinitarian godhead.
His body was shredded, his soul and human spirit went back to God, just like ours does when we die. He is the "image" of the invisible God(Father). God is something "tangible" for us now. not just a invisible Spirit. He has given us an Image to worship that we can understand.(GOD INSIDE CHRIST) I do not know what happened to his soul or human spirit after he died or what happens to ours for that matter.
I dread starting that full length discussion all over again on this thread, but would try to clarify any thing I can in short form if you like...
Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy that is not fulfilled, it is only partly fulfilled just as many others in Isaiah.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given (Fulfilled)
and the government shall be upon his shoulder (not fulfilled)
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.(not fulfilled)
Isaiah 9:6 will be completely fulfilled when 1Co 15:24-28 is fulfilled. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Luke, weve been through this already..our threads on "the man Christ Jesus", show what I believe.
Jesus was "completely" human with his own body, soul and human spirit. Just like us. A "qualified human being. No "add ons".
I know that we have discussed this but nowhere in scripture does it ever even allude to the concept that jesus was not God. In fact the bible specificly calls Jesus God mutiple times. To say that jesus was anything less than God does not make biblical sense imo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
[B]He never claimed to be God, but the Holy Ghost "inside" him(or the Father), definitely claimed to be God.[/B He was simply a "begotten"(human) son of almighty God. And God(Father) was in his body.The Father was (in) him and spoke (through) him and did miracles (through) him.
How can you distinguish between when it is Jesus the man and when God the Father speaks if the scripture does specify it? In other words the times that i would point to as Jesus claiming to be God you would say that no this was God the Father speaking instead of Jesus but how do you come to this point unless it is to fit your belief? Also your definition of simply and my definiton of simply are two verey different things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
The Father(God) raised Jesus from the dead. And the fullness of the Godhead(all of what God consists of) now dwells in him BODILY(glorified-OMNIPRESENT BODY)...ALL OF GOD IS INSIDE OF JESUS...Jesus is not in the Godhead, but the Godhead is "INSIDE" JESUS (BODILY)(thats how Jesus is omnipresent now),Col.2:9...
You are saying that still yet Jesus is not God but rather the place where God resides.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
.NOW THAT IS NOT "DENYING" the DEITY of JESUS.in any way, shape or form. It makes Jesus "ALL" God, not just a "part"(co-equal partner) of a trinitarian godhead.
Yes you are denying the Diety of Jesus and you would have to if you believe that He was simply man while on earth unles you agree with mormons who believe that man can become God. If jesus ever was not God then He never can become God. Unless you are willing to answer the question as to how a human BECOMES GOD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
His body was shredded, his soul and human spirit went back to God, just like ours does when we die. He is the "image" of the invisible God(Father). God is something "tangible" for us now. not just a invisible Spirit. He has given us an Image to worship that we can understand.(GOD INSIDE CHRIST) I do not know what happened to his soul or human spirit after he died or what happens to ours for that matter.
He physicaly raised from the dead in the same body he had before His crucifixion just as we will. The only difference between His body before and after the ressurection being that now He has a glorified body as we will also have. It is ineresting to note that the old testament prophesied that when the jews behold Jesus again His they will ask where He recieved the scars upon Him which seems to imply that he still bears the marks of His crucifixion therewfore how can you say that His body was shredded or in any way doen away with? Not knowing what happened to His spirit is a problem because to say that He was simply man like us then He died and is now the place where God resides brings uo two major problems that you never answered:
1: In heaven there will be two of Jesus. One that is the place where all of God resides. The other will be the man resurected at the end along with the rest of us.
2: If you reject the first veiw then you are left with the belief that God destroyed the only perfect man who has ever lived entirerly except for His bodily shell.
Which do you hold to?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean
I dread starting that full length discussion all over again on this thread, but would try to clarify any thing I can in short form if you like...
Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy that is not fulfilled, it is only partly fulfilled just as many others in Isaiah.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given (Fulfilled)
and the government shall be upon his shoulder (not fulfilled)
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.(not fulfilled)
Isaiah 9:6 will be completely fulfilled when 1Co 15:24-28 is fulfilled. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
Light I love you man, but wheither or not all of Is 9:6 is fullfilled, there is no question that Isaiah states here that the Massiah will be called both the Prince of Peace and the Ever Lasting Father.
I could go into a nice long disertation on Councellor and Comforter etc but that would be long and boring and wear most folk out.
Bottom line I believe in ONE God, just the same as the prophet in question here did.
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Light I love you man, but wheither or not all of Is 9:6 is fullfilled, there is no question that Isaiah states here that the Massiah will be called both the Prince of Peace and the Ever Lasting Father.
I could go into a nice long disertation on Councellor and Comforter etc but that would be long and boring and wear most folk out.
Bottom line I believe in ONE God, just the same as the prophet in question here did.
I also believe in ONE GOD,just not the Jesus only doctrine .
Ferd please explain Paul's letter that all things we're put under Jesus except God.
I also believe in ONE GOD,just not the Jesus only doctrine .
Ferd please explain Paul's letter that all things we're put under Jesus except God.
This is not a subject im going to get into a long drown out debate over. Pauls letter is best understood with the following words.
Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is One LORD
(by the way, those were the very first words by boys heard when they were born. The very first words I spoke to them in the delivery room, when they handed them to me were "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord. And thou shalt love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your strength and him only shalt thou serve"
chokes me up just remembering it. I do not doubt your faith. I certainly do not complicate God.
There is one. He took on human form....God was manifest in the flesh, Justified in the spirit, Seen of angels, Preached among the nations, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
IlovemesomeJesus!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
i know that we have discussed this but nowhere in scripture does it ever even allude to the concept that jesus was not god. In fact the bible specificly calls jesus god mutiple times. To say that jesus was anything less than god does not make biblical sense imo.
Hey bro, you are asking the same questions that we discussed over there. I answered them all...Jesus was a man and God(the father) was in him in the form of the Holy Ghost(luke 4:1)
lets try this one: If you were born of a virgin by the power of God, and you had the power of God residing in you in the fullness that Jesus had(witnessing the miracles,signs and wonders that Jesus did), and I saw you die to fulfill o.t. Scriptures and resurrect in a glorified body claiming "all power is given unto me in heaven and earth", you would be my God. I would not have to ask you,,,,show me God?. Before he died, Phillip said."show me(us) the Father(God). They wanted to see God. They did not know that the Father was right there in front of them...(inside of Jesus)....they did not realize he would be their God till after the resurrection. ( they just saw him as the messiah, prophet, son of God,) ...that is when Thomas first fell down and said..."my Lord and my God"...after the resurrection.
I believe Jesus is God. He was not born a baby/god. He was a man. God is not a man. His "destiny" was to become "our" God. He passed the test(with the help of the Holy Ghost inside him). He is our God.
How can you distinguish between when it is jesus the man and when god the father speaks if the scripture does specify it? In other words the times that i would point to as jesus claiming to be god you would say that no this was god the father speaking instead of jesus but how do you come to this point unless it is to fit your belief? Also your definition of simply and my definiton of simply are two verey different things.
When the father speaks, it is written in blue letters...lol,
no really, when Jesus said "before Abraham was, I AM".....that was the Father.
When Jesus said..."I thirst"...that was Jesus.
You are saying that still yet jesus is not god but rather the place where god resides.
No Luke, God is "inside" him. As big as God is, is now how big Jesus is.(omnipresent)
Yes you are denying the diety of jesus and you would have to if you believe that he was simply man while on earth unles you agree with mormons who believe that man can become god. If jesus ever was not god then he never can become god. Unless you are willing to answer the question as to how a human becomes god?
Simple, his body is literally destroyed by his fellow humans, his soul and spirit go back to God and God resurrects him from the dead, gives him a glorified body and chooses to dwell in him in His fullness.
You must really think that is impossible to God(what i just described)
thats why you try the mormon ploy. (the readers are smarter than you think)
he physicaly raised from the dead in the same body he had before his crucifixion just as we will. The only difference between his body before and after the ressurection being that now he has a glorified body as we will also have. It is ineresting to note that the old testament prophesied that when the jews behold jesus again his they will ask where he recieved the scars upon him which seems to imply that he still bears the marks of his crucifixion therewfore how can you say that his body was shredded or in any way doen away with? Not knowing what happened to his spirit is a problem because to say that he was simply man like us then he died and is now the place where god resides brings uo two major problems that you never answered:
It is only a problem to those that believe in more than one divine being...it would bug me too.
1: In heaven there will be two of jesus. One that is the place where all of god resides. The other will be the man resurected at the end along with the rest of us.
2: If you reject the first veiw then you are left with the belief that god destroyed the only perfect man who has ever lived entirerly except for his bodily shell.
Thats the part that I have no idea...what happens to the soul and spirit. Jesus like us, had both...why dont you tell me what happened to Jesus' soul and human spirit?... I really would like to know....that part of ingredients of the human being is left out for conjecture. (maybe his soul and human spirit are essentially part of his new body and all parts are omnipresent), ( maybe our soul and spirit will just get a new body) but we wont be God or omnipresent.
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