Holinisness is not....

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

And that's my point. They are then beyond temptation to sin. Again, if one experiences any temptation or inclination to sin, that is evidence of the sinful carnal nature of the flesh. Therefore, if you ever feel tempted Luke... you've yet to be entirely sanctified, and therefore, by your own definition, you aren't saved until you get to that point.

Good luck!

No temptation is simply the offer of sin to an individual. It is being offered the opportunity to satisfy a good desire in the wrong way. One does not cease to be holy simply because they were offered sin other wise Jesus ceased to be holy when He was tempted of the devil.

Also salvation and sanctification are two different separate works of grace one can be saved but not sanctified but one cannot be sanctified and not saved. Salvation comes before sanctification. One must be cleansed from actual sin before they can be cleansed of original sin.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Amen. I've realized that if you get three elders (or rabbis) in a room, you'll most likely hear 5 opinions. lol

lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

No temptation is simply the offer of sin to an individual.

However, if sin is repulsive (to use your own word) to one who has experienced total sanctification, the very offer of sin wouldn't be "tempting" or have any appeal in any way. Therefore, the offer of sin truly couldn't be called a "temptation", because in reality... their not even tempted. Sin wouldn't be possible... unless you believe that one could willingly chose to do that which they find repulsive.

It is being offered the opportunity to satisfy a good desire in the wrong way. One does not cease to be holy simply because they were offered sin other wise Jesus ceased to be holy when He was tempted of the devil.

Amen. However, see my response to the above statement.

Also salvation and sanctification are two different separate works of grace one can be saved but not sanctified but one cannot be sanctified and not saved. Salvation comes before sanctification. One must be cleansed from actual sin before they can be cleansed of original sin.

I believe that redemption/salvation is essentially a single work of grace wherein different aspect/doctrines are realized through faith. I'd describe it as follows:

1. Divine Election (God's sovereign choice of people to be saved)

2. Atonement (Christ's work of satisfying the law for the Elect)

3. Propitiation (Christ's satisfying God's wrath against the sins of the Elect - past, present, future)

4. The Efficatious Calling (the drawing of the Elect through the Holy Spirit)

5. Conversion (faith and repentance)

6. Justification (right legal standing, the imputed sinlessness of Christ through the abiding divine nature)

7. Regeneration (being born again through the partaking of the divine nature)

8. Adoption (membership in God's family)

9. Sanctification (right conduct in life leading to Christlikeness)

10. Perseverance (remaining a Christian through the abiding influence of the Spirit)

11. Death (going to be with the Lord to await resurrection)

12. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body in sinless perfection)

Each of these doctrines of grace have realities to be reckoned so through faith and experienced by the saint of God for their salvation to be complete.

As it relates to us (Apostolics), Acts 2:38 is merely an aspect of conversion. Regeneration is a work of the Spirit when one is "born again", leading to "Adoption", becoming a true son of God. The work of sanctification also begins here... but continues throughout one's life as they grow in Christlikeness.

[Luke]

Jesus finds sin repulsive and disgusting yet He took it upon Himself. Many plumbers find wading in sewage digusting but they still have to do it sometimes to fix a problem. To be tempted does not mean that we want to it simply means that we have the oppotunity to and have been offer the chance to do something. Unless you are saying that Jesus desired to worship satan when the devil tempted Him to do so?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

Jesus finds sin repulsive and disgusting yet He took it upon Himself. Many plumbers find wading in sewage digusting but they still have to do it sometimes to fix a problem. To be tempted does not mean that we want to it simply means that we have the oppotunity to and have been offer the chance to do something. Unless you are saying that Jesus desired to worship satan when the devil tempted Him to do so?

I see what you're saying, and I can agree to some point. However, I do think that Jesus had temptations that are indeed desirable, temptations that have been experienced by every man.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

If the law of sin, the fallen nature, is no longer at work in your flesh... how could some seed of temptation even appeal and thereby tempt you?

As I have stated in other threads on this same topic a person does not need a sin nature/fallen nature to be tempted. That this is true should be a glaring reality. Take for example Adam and Eve they were created unfallen yet they fell through temptation. What about satan the bible says that he was perfect until the day that he sinned (sin was found in him is the specific reading i think). Lastly what about Jesus though without a fallen nature He was tempted in all points like we are but He did not sin. I light of these examples why do people continue to say that we must have a sin nature in order to be tempted?

[Aquila]

Holiness is simply being like Jesus. Christ-like. Allowing the Spirit of Christ to live the Christ life out through you. Living as a branch of the True Vine, bearing spiritual fruit in humility and love.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

As I have stated in other threads on this same topic a person does not need a sin nature/fallen nature to be tempted. That this is true should be a glaring reality. Take for example Adam and Eve they were created unfallen yet they fell through temptation. What about satan the bible says that he was perfect until the day that he sinned (sin was found in him is the specific reading i think). Lastly what about Jesus though without a fallen nature He was tempted in all points like we are but He did not sin. I light of these examples why do people continue to say that we must have a sin nature in order to be tempted?

I believe that the sinful nature of my spirit is eradicated. However, my flesh is still fallen and depraved. It has sinful inclinations, desires, hormonal reactions, etc. that it will not have once I am glorified in eternity.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe that the sinful nature of my spirit is eradicated. However, my flesh is still fallen and depraved. It has sinful inclinations, desires, hormonal reactions, etc. that it will not have once I am glorified in eternity.

Our desires are god given and our hormones are also God given and were created for a good purpose and use. Temptation is simply the devil offering an illeagal means of accting upon those God given desires and reactions. Sin is the choosing to follow that offer and act upon it. Our desires and reactions differ from a fallen nature/law of sin in that God created us with desires but not the desire to sin. The law of sin pulls us to sin and in a sense makes us want to sin whereas our God given desires make us want what God made us to want weather it be hunger, thirst, a better life, sexual. All of those things desires are permissable and sanctioned by God when handled properly.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

Our desires are god given and our hormones are also God given and were created for a good purpose and use. Temptation is simply the devil offering an illeagal means of accting upon those God given desires and reactions. Sin is the choosing to follow that offer and act upon it. Our desires and reactions differ from a fallen nature/law of sin in that God created us with desires but not the desire to sin. The law of sin pulls us to sin and in a sense makes us want to sin whereas our God given desires make us want what God made us to want weather it be hunger, thirst, a better life, sexual. All of those things desires are permissable and sanctioned by God when handled properly.

Sin has affected us down to the very genetic level. We see the affects of sin in our members in the fact that our bodies age, that we are prone to disease and sickness, that chemical and hormonal imbalances can lead to sinful behaviors ranging from rage to promiscuity. We see birth defects. We see deformity in brain development that leaves one prone to violent and even psychotic behaviors. This flesh is tragically fallen and flawed. Bears the affects and marks of sin. It's like a system with a rampant computer virus raging through it.

Romans 7:23
But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

Romans 7:18
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Victory can only be maintained through walking in the Spirit (Romans 8). But the battle will not cease until this flesh is either dead or glorified.