Oneness Questions

[Light]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You just posted them today and now I don't have time. I'll deal with any verse but Im not going to deal with EVERY verse. People have a tendency to argue by "weariness", where they post verse after verse after verse and demand us Oneness deal with each one and write a page long exegesis of each.

I usually tell them to do it themselves and I'll let them know if agree.

But before I deal with a verse, I need to know what Im supposed to be dealing with or what Im supposed to explain in relation to what I believe. Don't just post a verse and demand explanations. Because My response will simply be "I agree with this verse"

I'm sorry they were posted days ago. Post #12 #18 #20 just to name a few.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

See...that is what I said YOU said several times now. I noted that twist at the end. Right? You believe there were two persons and one was God and one was not while Jesus was on earth. That is Unitarianism. The "Twist" is that He got absorbed back into God and now there is just One Person and He (Jesus) is God.

I've been following what you claim to believe. Ive repeated it back to you several times and then you repeat what you believe

But they say Jesus is "not" God....I say Jesus "is' God.




Just had a thought though....why dont any of you that critique my explanation, provide your own version of the Godhead?

I really believe none of you can "communicate" it with us as a counter doctrine. You guys are afraid it will be filled with holes. (You really dont know "exactly" what you believe) Maybe kinda, but not exactly.

I truly believe you do not know even where to start your explanation guys. We know the oneness passages as well as you, c'mon win me back to the truth if you want me to find my way back to it. I am open to your exegesis. If a brother was deceived, I would give it all I got to help him see the truth, especially if he is open to it.







Please explain to me in your terms how God is Jesus and Jesus is God(the same exact person or being), especially before the virgin birth.
And how God is Jesus(the same exact person and became a God/Man..."dual nature")...I really want to know guys.

[Disciple4life]

Is this thread still going on?

Anyway I am sure I said this like ten pages ago but shouldn't we be able to explain the Godhead in at least 5 minutes and less than 1000 words?

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone but even children should be able to understand it.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Disciple4life

Is this thread still going on?

Anyway I am sure I said this like ten pages ago but shouldn't we be able to explain the Godhead in at least 5 minutes and less than 1000 words?

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone but even children should be able to understand it.

Brother, I laid all my cards on the table the last couple months in debating and explaining my concept(not just throwing out verses to read). It has been rebutted by trinitarians and oneness alike. But I did it to "test" it, and possibly get a "real" explanation of the oneness from a knowledgeable person. So far, I see nothing satifactory to "fix" it..maybe I'm on to something....we'll see.

[Disciple4life]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, I laid all my cards on the table the last couple months in debating and explaining my concept(not just throwing out verses to read). It has been rebutted by trinitarians and oneness alike. But I did it to "test" it, and possibly get a "real" explanation of the oneness from a knowledgeable person. So far, I see nothing satifactory to "fix" it..maybe I'm on to something....we'll see.

No I wasn't calling you out Sean.

I have had this discussion before. Grew up AOG and nobody could explain the trinity to me. (Trinitarians always say it is so spiritual nobody can understand it) Then I become Oneness and I get the same line. (We have to go over it for hours and hours because you don't quite have it) Maybe I am just slow or dense but I believe whatever you believe you should be able to give a reasonably simple answer for in the space of 5 minutes.

Wasn't this thread started to help someone else out and then we just start fighting amongst ourselves?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Disciple4life

No I wasn't calling you out Sean.

I have had this discussion before. Grew up AOG and nobody could explain the trinity to me. (Trinitarians always say it is so spiritual nobody can understand it) Then I become Oneness and I get the same line. (We have to go over it for hours and hours because you don't quite have it) Maybe I am just slow or dense but I believe whatever you believe you should be able to give a reasonably simple answer for in the space of 5 minutes.

Wasn't this thread started to help someone else out and then we just start fighting amongst ourselves?

Thats fine brother, maybe Brother Seagraves or David Bernard will come on board and help us out...LOL



I wish the 5 minute thing were realistic...I listen to hours long debates and still nobody gets it...LOL

[Disciple4life]

Originally Posted by Sean

Thats fine brother, maybe Brother Seagraves or David Bernard will come on board and help us out...LOL



I wish the 5 minute thing were realistic...I listen to hours long debates and still nobody gets it...LOL

Some people would argue with the Twelve Apostles! So I don't know what good Brother Seagraves or Brother Bernard would do!

[Sean]

They might have kicked the Apostles out of the church for not teaching tithing...ouch!

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Light

I'm sorry they were posted days ago. Post #12 #18 #20 just to name a few.

I responded. The passage in question and your identifying the people in it as God and Jesus respectively points to the notion that you believe Jesus is not God. And here I was thinking you were a trinitarian.

There are many prooftexts for Jesus being God. There are many prooftexts for Jesus being a man. Dual nature doctrine is an attempt to take the whole voice of scripture on the identity of Jesus. Dual nature doctrine interprets those scriptures by simply teaching Jesus was both man and God (and it is one of the many similarities between oneness and trinitarianism). So when you are debating a dual nature believer you cannot point to a scripture that seems to say Jesus is only a man because if dual nature doctrine is correct then being a man doesn't mean Jesus is not also God.

Personally I feel there is a fatal logical flaw in dual nature doctrine but that's a very hard proof to develop and doubly hard since the goal posts and nuances of dual nature doctrine are subject to change at any time without notice.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

You just posted them today and now I don't have time. I'll deal with any verse but Im not going to deal with EVERY verse. People have a tendency to argue by "weariness", where they post verse after verse after verse and demand us Oneness deal with each one and write a page long exegesis of each.

I usually tell them to do it themselves and I'll let them know if agree.

But before I deal with a verse, I need to know what Im supposed to be dealing with or what Im supposed to explain in relation to what I believe. Don't just post a verse and demand explanations. Because My response will simply be "I agree with this verse"

Prax, I have something I want you to deal with. Do you believe the pronouns "I, he, she, you" reference persons or beings?

(A person being defined as the doer of actions. A being defined as a person with a nature.)

We have discussed around this topic before and I seem to recall you saying they reference the person. But I say that they reference beings. There is no other explanation for a verse like John 5:26

John 5:26: For as the Father hath life in himself (the divine being God); so hath he (the divine being God) given to the Son to have life in himself (the human being Jesus);

No other usage of the "he" pronouns makes sense there. Do you agree? And if you agree then can you explain how the bible when referring to Jesus, could ever have called him God? (Since references to Jesus most certainly would refer to the human being, the man Jesus Christ and not the person Jesus Christ who also happens to be God?