So Mich....

[ILG]

So Mich, I know you visited a church recently for the first time in years and so did I (for the intent of thinking about being a regular attender....first time Easter Sunday morning.)

I went again today. This time I was going to go to a different church because, although I liked the first one (Lutheran), going twice might give the people that go there ideas and I am afraid of those kinds of things. So, I went to a different Lutheran church. I honestly felt wigged out, outside of the church. I didn't have a good feeling about the place. However, I had no logical reason to think that, so I went in.

I left after 10 minutes. Here is why. In the bulletin there was 1/4 of the thing taken up explaining how you have to speak with the pastor before taking communion. To take communion there means "I believe everything this church teaches". "We need to study God's Word together to make sure we are united in belief and confession." Yikes! At first I thought it might be rude to leave, but then I just got a peace about it. They were excluding me and I was going to supposedly have to agree with "everything this church teaches" to take communion?? Not happening.

So, since I had to be somewhere and had to leave at 10:15 (the church I went to this morning was at 8:30) I went back to the other one I went to on Easter Sunday which is also early. This church allows anyone to take communion that believes a few certain things and you don't have to have some sort of "measure up" meeting with the pastor. I again had a very nice experience there.

I'll be traveling around, looking here and there. Looking at churches is extremely emotional for me, in both good ways and bad.

Just thought I would share. Have you been anywhere since Easter?

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by ILG

So Mich, I know you visited a church recently for the first time in years and so did I (for the intent of thinking about being a regular attender....first time Easter Sunday morning.)

I went again today. This time I was going to go to a different church because, although I liked the first one (Lutheran), going twice might give the people that go there ideas and I am afraid of those kinds of things. So, I went to a different Lutheran church. I honestly felt wigged out, outside of the church. I didn't have a good feeling about the place. However, I had no logical reason to think that, so I went in.

I left after 10 minutes. Here is why. In the bulletin there was 1/4 of the thing taken up explaining how you have to speak with the pastor before taking communion. To take communion there means "I believe everything this church teaches". "We need to study God's Word together to make sure we are united in belief and confession." Yikes! At first I thought it might be rude to leave, but then I just got a peace about it. They were excluding me and I was going to supposedly have to agree with "everything this church teaches" to take communion?? Not happening.

So, since I had to be somewhere and had to leave at 10:15 (the church I went to this morning was at 8:30) I went back to the other one I went to on Easter Sunday which is also early. This church allows anyone to take communion that believes a few certain things and you don't have to have some sort of "measure up" meeting with the pastor. I again had a very nice experience there.

I'll be traveling around, looking here and there. Looking at churches is extremely emotional for me, in both good ways and bad.

Just thought I would share. Have you been anywhere since Easter?

Yes, I've gone back to that same church, this morning was the 3rd time. But I think I'll be taking a break next week for Mother's and then am thinking of possibly trying out a few others.

My biggest issue right now is honestly, my husband. I know he wouldn't be thrilled about it, but he was much more opposed to it than I expected.

Firstly, he really really doesn't want me bringing Avery. But she really really loves it. (Mainly the social aspect, she's a few months short of 3, and she's not in daycare, and we have no friends with kids her age, so it's a special treat for her to be around other kids...heck, it's a treat for her to be around anyone other than us.)

I've tried to be as respectful to his beliefs about the Non-existence of God as I can be, without actually capitulating on mine. I've explained to Avery that because we can't see Jesus, or hear him talking out loud that some people don't think that he is real. And that Daddy is one of them, and that's Ok. And that's why Daddy doesn't want to go to church. I honestly think that Josh believes that they are going to gang up on her and start preaching fire and brimstone. I keep telling him that even the most conservative church I've ever been too doesn't corner 2 year olds and bombard her with "Your Daddy is going to hell!" And this is far from a conservative church.

I really try to see it from his perspective and imagine how I would feel if he told me that he became a scientologist and wanted to get Avery deprogrammed (or whatever it is they do!).

The other main problem is that we work different schedules and split child care. And during the week we see each other for about 10 minutes a day. And then we get Friday night (when he's been aware for 24 hours), saturdays, and part of Sunday. So I think he's hurt that I am giving up time with him as our hours are precious. (I had thought that he would appreciate a few hours alone each week as his portion of Avery-care doesn't allow for that.)

So I've been having a hard time trying to balance my husband, my daughter and my personal spirituality, and haven't come up with a good solution.

So I decided to take next week off, and then try to find one with a little earlier service. (which would leave us more time together on Sundays). But honestly, I don't think he's ever going to be happy, because if the choice was solely his, she would learn about religions in about 10-15 years, in a safe rational academic setting.

But as for me, I haven't had any anxiety issues, or problems. I disagree with parts of what I hear, (but I'm pretty far left when it comes to Christianity.), but I think I can say that any triggers I've had are gone. I made the mistake of saying to my husband this week, that I think it would be interesting to go to a church service similar to the ones that I once found sound difficult. Just to prove to myself that I am completely healed and have moved on. He pretty much thought I was crazy, LOL

[ILG]

Yes, I've gone back to that same church, this morning was the 3rd time. But I think I'll be taking a break next week for Mother's and then am thinking of possibly trying out a few others.

I skipped a week and am planning to go sporadically to this and different churches. I am not ready to jump in with both feet....not at all. I want to do this slowly and thoughtfully.

My biggest issue right now is honestly, my husband. I know he wouldn't be thrilled about it, but he was much more opposed to it than I expected.

I'm sorry.

Firstly, he really really doesn't want me bringing Avery. But she really really loves it. (Mainly the social aspect, she's a few months short of 3, and she's not in daycare, and we have no friends with kids her age, so it's a special treat for her to be around other kids...heck, it's a treat for her to be around anyone other than us.)

It's really hard when you have kids and you have differing beliefs. Frankly, I am glad I don't have to think about that too much. If I had little kids right now, I would probably try and raise them in a liberal church that allowed you to think and also try and expose them to different views. I was talking to my daughter the other day. I wanted to make sure no one is upset that I am going to church. My family is all okay with me going as long as I don't pressure them. My kids, in particular, play with agnosticism. (I can't blame them after all we've been through.) They have watched a lot of higher education like the Great Courses on historical Christianity etc. They know an amazing amount. Anyway, I told my daughter that I believe that God is self-evident and that I have no need to try and convince them of anything. I trust that God reveals Himself to men in His own time and His own ways. God knows all they have been through and I trust that He will work it out.

I've tried to be as respectful to his beliefs about the Non-existence of God as I can be, without actually capitulating on mine. I've explained to Avery that because we can't see Jesus, or hear him talking out loud that some people don't think that he is real. And that Daddy is one of them, and that's Ok. And that's why Daddy doesn't want to go to church. I honestly think that Josh believes that they are going to gang up on her and start preaching fire and brimstone. I keep telling him that even the most conservative church I've ever been too doesn't corner 2 year olds and bombard her with "Your Daddy is going to hell!" And this is far from a conservative church.

I wonder how he would feel if you came up with a compromise like you could take her once a month or something.

I really try to see it from his perspective and imagine how I would feel if he told me that he became a scientologist and wanted to get Avery deprogrammed (or whatever it is they do!).

Yes. I agree that it's important you both try to see each others views in this. On a side note, I watched some scientology stuff for the first time ever...Mostly ex-scientology members. Weird, weird stuff!!

The other main problem is that we work different schedules and split child care. And during the week we see each other for about 10 minutes a day. And then we get Friday night (when he's been aware for 24 hours), saturdays, and part of Sunday. So I think he's hurt that I am giving up time with him as our hours are precious. (I had thought that he would appreciate a few hours alone each week as his portion of Avery-care doesn't allow for that.)

Yes, I have somewhat the same type of problem. That is one reason I haven't been going every week.

So I've been having a hard time trying to balance my husband, my daughter and my personal spirituality, and haven't come up with a good solution.

I'll pray for you that you can find something that works for all of you.

So I decided to take next week off, and then try to find one with a little earlier service. (which would leave us more time together on Sundays). But honestly, I don't think he's ever going to be happy, because if the choice was solely his, she would learn about religions in about 10-15 years, in a safe rational academic setting.

Yeah, that's not all bad, but on the flip-side, it's like you said, there is that something about being in a worship service with other believers. You are in a tough spot.

But as for me, I haven't had any anxiety issues, or problems. I disagree with parts of what I hear, (but I'm pretty far left when it comes to Christianity.), but I think I can say that any triggers I've had are gone. I made the mistake of saying to my husband this week, that I think it would be interesting to go to a church service similar to the ones that I once found sound difficult. Just to prove to myself that I am completely healed and have moved on. He pretty much thought I was crazy, LOL

I do have anxiety issues and triggers. But I am doing my best to accept that. I feel that this background tries to make a person feel that they are bad for not being healed yesterday. I think that thinking actually keeps a person from healing, as if a person can command their own healing. I will be affected by what I experienced for the rest of my life. I am doing my best to accept that, and move forward. I also disagree with parts of things I hear but if I can find a place where I can mostly accept it and they will accept me even if I don't agree with (as that bulletin said this morning!) "everything they teach", I truly have enjoyed being in a worship service. It has been awesome.

[Dichotomy Girl]

I think it's hard for Josh, because we met and married right when I was at the extreme left of my pendulum swing. (Which for me was basically taking a break from all things having to do with religion or Christianity).

From the start I was OK with him being an Atheist. Though one of the first questions I asked when we were dating was if he was a Fundamentalist Atheist. Because I had no interest in being told what NOT to believe (anymore than the other way around!).

And when it comes to just the two of us, there are no issues. We debate and philosophize. (He is big into philosophy and ethics), and we mostly see eye to eye on the big issues (though not always for the same reason).

Of course, Avery was an unexpected blessing, and so we are still scrambling to keep up.

It's weird though, because he was raised going to church, and was really into it in middle school, and early high school. Nothing bad happened there, it was a normal healthy church (Baptist of some kind). No abuse, no major "this person" or "God" done me wrong. He just intellectually decided that faith/christianity/God was not something he could rationally believe. So I am always saying...you grew up going to Sunday School / Church. It didn't hurt or damage you in any way.

I think fear of losing us is at the bottom of it. Fear of me becoming a different person that he wouldn't want to be married to, and fear of Avery exchanging her "my Daddy is the best man in the universe" thoughts to "my Daddy is going to hell because he doesn't believe in Jesus".

[ILG]

From the start I was OK with him being an Atheist. Though one of the first questions I asked when we were dating was if he was a Fundamentalist Atheist. Because I had no interest in being told what NOT to believe (anymore than the other way around!).

Yes, I joined a forum once that I left in short order because there were a bunch of atheist fundamentalists. I had left fundamentalism and wasn't interested in any kind of fundamentalism in the least! The atheists there thought their atheistic fundamentalism made them enlightened and some of them spent their time saying how stupid everyone else was. I wasn't interested!

And when it comes to just the two of us, there are no issues. We debate and philosophize. (He is big into philosophy and ethics), and we mostly see eye to eye on the big issues (though not always for the same reason).

My kids are big into philosophy so I get an earful often....philosophy was my daughter's minor. She first became interested when she read Plato's Cave and felt like she grew up there.

Of course, Avery was an unexpected blessing, and so we are still scrambling to keep up.

Even if kids are expected, I think we still all spend our lives trying to keep up.

It's weird though, because he was raised going to church, and was really into it in middle school, and early high school. Nothing bad happened there, it was a normal healthy church (Baptist of some kind). No abuse, no major "this person" or "God" done me wrong. He just intellectually decided that faith/christianity/God was not something he could rationally believe. So I am always saying...you grew up going to Sunday School / Church. It didn't hurt or damage you in any way.

I think fear of losing us is at the bottom of it. Fear of me becoming a different person that he wouldn't want to be married to, and fear of Avery exchanging her "my Daddy is the best man in the universe" thoughts to "my Daddy is going to hell because he doesn't believe in Jesus".

That is a valid fear and why I am talking to my family as I go and making sure they are okay with it. (If they weren't, I'm not sure what I would do...) For me, one of the biggest things is in the way the Bible is interpreted. I did some looking on a website yesterday and found one of the differences between the churches I attended yesterday is that the one I walked out of believes in a literal interpretation of the Bible. The one where I enjoyed the service believes in a more scholarly/critical interpretation. Gone are the days for me of the Bible being a black and white rule book.

[commonsense]

This is a difficult search, there are good non Apostolic groups but it might take dedication to track them down.

[Dichotomy Girl]

ILG: Have you considered this denomination?

http://www.disciples.org/Home/WhoWeA...7/Default.aspx

http://www.disciples.org/Portals/0/P...20Brochure.pdf

http://www.disciples.org/Portals/0/P...repage2PDF.pdf


I really like this part about Freedom of belief, from the wikipedia entry:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

For modern Disciples the one essential is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and obedience to him in baptism.[43] There is no requirement to give assent to any other statement of belief or creed. Nor is there any "official" interpretation of the Bible.[44] Hierarchical doctrine was traditionally rejected by Disciples as human-made and divisive, and subsequently, freedom of belief and scriptural interpretation allows many Disciples to question or even deny beliefs common in doctrinal churches such as the Incarnation, the Trinity, and the Atonement. Beyond the essential commitment to follow Jesus there is a tremendous freedom of belief and interpretation. As the basic teachings of Jesus are studied and applied to life, there is the freedom to interpret Jesus' teaching in different ways. As would be expected from such an approach, there is a wide diversity among Disciples in what individuals and congregations believe. It is not uncommon to find individuals who seemingly hold diametrically opposed beliefs within the same congregation affirming one another's journeys of faith as sisters and brothers in Christ.

Members and seekers are encouraged to take being disciples seriously, meaning that they are student followers of Jesus. Often the best teaching comes in the form, "I'll tell you what I think, but read the Bible for yourself, and then study and pray about it. Decide in what ways God is calling you to be a follower of Jesus."

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Dichotomy Girl

ILG: Have you considered this denomination?

http://www.disciples.org/Home/WhoWeA...7/Default.aspx

http://www.disciples.org/Portals/0/P...20Brochure.pdf

http://www.disciples.org/Portals/0/P...repage2PDF.pdf


I really like this part about Freedom of belief, from the wikipedia entry:

Looks better than many. I live in a tiny po-dunk town and there is not a lot of choice here. So that will limit me.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by ILG

Looks better than many. I live in a tiny po-dunk town and there is not a lot of choice here. So that will limit me.

It could be worse...you could live in a tiny podunk town that's also in the middle of the bible belt (as I do)

[KeptByTheWord]

One thing I have found in visiting churches when you live in a small podunk town... is that your face is not forgotten, and the next time you show up at the grocery store, someone (probably) is going to recognize you and say... hey! when are you coming back, lol. Of course they mean well. Problem is... it is really hard to get a feel for a church just by visiting once or twice. I think it is a good idea to visit on different occasions and times, and don't become too regular until you have made your decision.

I think for most people, the basic need for having a church to belong to goes beyond spirituality, and at the heart of the need for church is really is the desire for companionship, friendship, and a social outlet. (Don't get me wrong, I believe that we should be part of a group of people because we want to worship the Lord... ) but primarily what I have seen in most churches, is that people stay in that church because of the companionship, friendships, and relationships that they have built. Just my experience, for the most part, and this stretches into any "church" group in general.

For now, our family is content to be part of a home fellowship, and it has been wonderful. I'm not saying that we would never be part of a formal church group setting again, but where we are now, we are thankful for the sweet fellowship and communion we have. We live in a pretty isolated area, and feel blessed for the fellowship that we have.

I wish both of you well in your search for a place to fill the needs in your heart!