Heretics and Politics by Thomas A. Fudge - Page 11

CC1 · #**101** 06-10-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabby

My friend was teaching home bible studies on off-church nights, teaching his neighbors (who were not attending anywhere). They never missed church - school policy forbad it.
He denied teaching eschatalogy when I asked him. He said that that there are more important things to teach, like Jesus. My friend was not raised in the UPC. He was Alvin Cobb's convert in Europe while in the military. He had won several soldiers to The Lord when I knew him in Germany. I don't think he had an agenda, but then again, I don't know his mind or motives at the time.

If he was telling you the truth then sadly it sounds like he was another victim of small thinking. You would think a pastor would be thrilled that a young minister in his church would be conducting home bible studies.

crakjak · #**102** 06-10-2014, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabby

CJ,
I'm not being a Debbie Downer, just reciting history. I'm sure it still happens elsewhere.

I know, just reminds me of some places I have been, looking back I wonder how it could have been.

Reader · #**103** 06-10-2014, 09:39 PM

Fudge shared about when Wayne Nigh was removed from the missionary field. That, to me, is a sad part of UPC history - due to how it happened and that it was, in part, about his beliefs on facial hair of all things. It has been my understanding that (at least back then- may not be now) missionaries were told not to attempt to change the culture of the area they were appointed to. Why then fuss with a missionary over their standards beliefs, especially an unwritten one. That has never been part of the UPC Manual or Articles of Faith.

Sabby- thank you for sharing some insight into the NW.

Sabby · #**104** 06-10-2014, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't understand this part at all.

Historicism basically holds that end-time prophecies have been historically fulfilled. This flies in the face of Dispensationalism.

Sabby · #**105** 06-10-2014, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

If he was telling you the truth then sadly it sounds like he was another victim of small thinking. You would think a pastor would be thrilled that a young minister in his church would be conducting home bible studies.

A hearty AMEN to that, CC1.

Sabby · #**106** 06-10-2014, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reader

Fudge shared about when Wayne Nigh was removed from the missionary field. That, to me, is a sad part of UPC history - due to how it happened and that it was, in part, about his beliefs on facial hair of all things. It has been my understanding that (at least back then- may not be now) missionaries were told not to attempt to change the culture of the area they were appointed to. Why then fuss with a missionary over their standards beliefs, especially an unwritten one. That has never been part of the UPC Manual or Articles of Faith.

Sabby- thank you for sharing some insight into the NW.

Br. Nigh was a German to the Germans. He learned their language, translated countless choruses and at least one NT book (Philippians). He opened an international bible college and had the largest fellowship in Europe. That HQ "denied" him PIM status reinforces his comment to me that in those days he felt like he was "swimming with sharks".

crakjak · #**107** 06-11-2014, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabby

Br. Nigh was a German to the Germans. He learned their language, translated countless choruses and at least one NT book (Philippians). He opened an international bible college and had the largest fellowship in Europe. That HQ "denied" him PIM status reinforces his comment to me that in those days he felt like he was "swimming with sharks".

He was too smart and serious about doing real missions work, the small minds had to bring him back in the box. That's not a great legacy for the organization. It is always a very difficult thing to try to contain new wine in old wine skins, the old skins have to be replaced with new, and that is very painful for the old.

The Holy Spirit is alive and always moving forward to those that are receptive. Fear of delusion and heresy is tough to overcome, and to know the difference.

crakjak · #**108** 06-11-2014, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC1

If he was telling you the truth then sadly it sounds like he was another victim of small thinking. You would think a pastor would be thrilled that a young minister in his church would be conducting home bible studies.

kclee4jc · #**109** 06-11-2014, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR Pastor

I read Fudge's first book. won't waste my time or money on his second.

Currently reading his first book. I am interested in the history. I have felt for a long time that the UPCI was founded on comprimise and Fudge's research affirms that for me. It does not in anyway take away from my conviction that this message is the only message.

I am enjoying parts of the book, but I know I will not agree with his conclusions.

Disciple4life · #**110** 06-11-2014, 01:45 PM

After reading Dr. Fudges second book I have had time to reflect.

After reading the second book it is easy to understand WHY he wrote the first book!

I think Fudge understood/learned/heard that people took his first book as hateful (that is not how I took it but it was some people's opinions at the time). In the second book he was more diplomatic.

At no point did I feel like Fudge was trying to convert me. He was telling a story, which has excellent footnotes by the way. I do not think Fudge was misleading. He says over and over that there was controversy and TWO different opinions. Fudge goes on numerous times to restate both sides of the debate. Do I have a good idea of what Dr Fudge thinks concerning the UPCI? Sure, but to say the book was one sided is a stretch.