Islamic Prayers at the Vatican

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Luke

Ah so you are literaly what those who stand for standards of righteousness and holiness are wrongly accused of being. You are a legalist one who seeks to be saved by keeping the law.


Lukem 28:46 and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem

John 14: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:10 be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.


Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 not of works, lest any man should boast.


Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


1 Peter 1:18 forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

ok, ty for your opinion here, and the regurgitation.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ok, ty for your opinion here, and the regurgitation.

I meant no offence or insult by that post rather it was a honest interpretation of the veiw of salvation through keeping the law.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Luke, you are saying that the bible and quran disagree on many important points. We all agree. That doesn't translate into there being a different God. The pharisees were hypoctires that closed the kingdom of heaven up. Jesus said their father was Satan and yet they still worshipped the same God as Jesus.

What if every "religion" is divine truth as interpreted through human filters?

What if when we die and finally see God, we discover that every religion contained truth but also contained serious ethnocentric errors?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Antipas

What if every "religion" is divine truth as interpreted through human filters?

What if when we die and finally see God, we discover that every religion contained truth but also contained serious ethnocentric errors?

What if all circles were really squares? Jesus said in no uncertain terms that He was the only way so either He is the only way or He is liar? You can decide which.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Luke

What if all circles were really squares? Jesus said in no uncertain terms that He was the only way so either He is the only way or He is liar? You can decide which.

What if the one within Jesus, who is truly the only way... is the same one who was manifest in others?

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Antipas

What if the one within Jesus, who is truly the only way... is the same one who was manifest in others?

You are tryinh to separate Jesus' humanity from His diety this a false view. Jesus was God and man both at the same time. It was not that Jesus was indwelt by God rather He was and is God. He is the only way.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Luke

You are tryinh to separate Jesus' humanity from His diety this a false view. Jesus was God and man both at the same time. It was not that Jesus was indwelt by God rather He was and is God. He is the only way.

My point is, wouldn't the man be subject to human limitations of both body and mind? As a result, wouldn't he speak as a man and offer an ethnocentric message as did Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, Nanak, and others?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Luke

You are tryinh to separate Jesus' humanity from His diety this a false view. Jesus was God and man both at the same time. It was not that Jesus was indwelt by God rather He was and is God. He is the only way.

Drawing distinction isn't necessarily drawing a "separation". The man, Jesus Christ, the Son of God was truly a human being fashioned in the express image of God's own person. So, while being a man, He reflects the very person of God. But the "Oneness" goes even deeper. Jesus described His oneness with the Father in this manner...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)[/QUOTE]

Here, the man Jesus Christ professes a "oneness" with the Father. Not "sameness". Jesus didn't say, "I, the Father, am one." Jesus said, "I AND my Father ARE one." The language demands two distinct ontological realities existing in a coinherent union. Deity and humanity united in a single being, the man Jesus Christ. This would mean that each shares in the other's ontological nature. Thus, by being manifest in Christ, the Father took upon Himself, and partook in, our humanity. God became a man. And by virtue of the Father being coinherently manifest in Him, Christ partook in the Father's nature, His divinity. That man was also God. They are... one.

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

Christ's desire was that we realize this coinherent oneness of being found only in Him. Notice, Jesus states that the Father is, "in me, and I in him". Jesus didn't say, "The Father is me, and I him." This is a mutual indwelling, a sharing of natures, a union of being... oneness.

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

As stated before, not only does the man Jesus Christ reflect the very image of the Father's own person, He partakes (shares) in the Father's very being. Therefore, to see the man Jesus Christ is to also see the Father.

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

Here Jesus puts the previous points together. Phillip asked to see the Father and Jesus upbraids him, explaining that to see Him (the man Jesus Christ) is to also see the Father. In addition the man Christ Jesus reinforces the ontological reality of the coinherent union of being shared between Himself and the Father, stating, "I am in the Father, and the Father in me". Again, mutual indwelling. A union of being. A sharing and union of nature. Jesus then goes on to explain that it is not He who does the miraculous works, but rather it is, "the Father that DWELLETH IN ME."

If the true scope of this mutual "indwelling" is understood... one can properly understand how the Oneness between the Father and the Son allows each to partake in all that the other is. As a result it can be said that in Christ... God became a man... and that the man Jesus Christ was also God.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Antipas

My point is, wouldn't the man be subject to human limitations of both body and mind? As a result, wouldn't he speak as a man and offer an ethnocentric message as did Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, Nanak, and others?

He was also God at the same time He was man.

Are you saying He didn't mean what said or that there is a deeper meaning?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Luke

Yes but i also understand that the unsaved do not hunger or thirst for or after righteousness.

Romans 3:10 as it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others

It worries me that you would make Jesus words meaningless.

Jesus said he who hungers and thirsts after righteousness would be filled. But nevermind that right? Because no one actually hungers and thirsts after righteousness anyways?