Question?

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Monterrey

Do that. I need the prayer and you need the practice.

And you don't?

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

And you don't?

Hey, you said you were going to pray for me, I was just trying to encourage you!

Anything to get you closer to the Lord is what I say!

Ya know, just trying to help you out.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

The movement you're in is a "Religion", just like the Catholic Church. Try leaving and see what happens. You will be treated just like you were treated when you left the CC.

I am also a Catholic via Tradition and upbringing. The most influential people in my life were Catholics, and my Grandparents were absolute Saints, if there is such a thing.

They were upset when I left the CC, but I was never called a heretic. During the 70's when I switched over to UPC church, lot's of us Hippies wanted something more charismatic.

You can call the "movement" whatever you like. It doesn't change my RELATIONSHIP which is not with a "movement" but with Jesus Christ.

I don't worry about "leaving" the movement. I worry about keeping my relationship with Christ alive and vibrant.

I have been through alot and I've seen and heard alot in 30+ years within the "movement" as you call it. I don't have my head in the sand. I know the "movement" is not perfect. It never will be because of the human factor.

The "imperfections" DO NOT change my relationship with Jesus Christ UNLESS I allow them to do so. I choose to continue to work on maintaining my relationship. It is a continual work in process and sometimes its a struggle because I'm human.

I've been offered the proverbial "carrot on a stick" to leave the UPC and go other directions. Some of it was quite appealing. I have chosen to stay for my own reasons and none of those reasons involve fear of repercussions. What can they do to me? Talk about me behind my back? Big whoopie deal! Who cares! In fact, some of them already do that for other reasons. So what?

[ILG]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

The scripture says they were already followers. It says they were "certain disciples" and Paul asked them if they had received the Holy Ghost "since they believed". They believed on Jesus as preached by John. When Paul questioned their baptism and they said unto John's baptism, after Paul explained, they were then re-baptized in the name of Jesus.

This is clearly an important "technicality" or there would be no need for them to be "re-baptized".

Yes, they were rebaptized because they had been followers of John. They were baptized unto a whole other person! Totally different than rebaptizing followers of Jesus because the baptizer didn't say the name over the candidate!

[Monterrey]

The problem with NFS is the problem that many people face when looking at others. We all struggle at some point with this.

We judge everyone according to what we have been through, not understanding that not everyone was where we were.

If someone joined up with any flavor of OP's with the wrong motives and got burned, then they tend to judge everyone and think that everyone joined up for those same reasons.

Say someone joined a particular church just to find a spouse. They join, get burned, and then think that everyone ought to feel the same way about that church as they do. But not everyone joins to find a spouse.

Not every group is the same and not every church congregation is the same, so therefore it is unjust to judge everybody and every group the same way.

Yet that is what most of us do if we care to admit it.

Personally, I enjoy being independent apostolic. But I am a maverick and realize it. No excuses, it is just the way I am.

I told someone recently that I have been out in the wilderness for so long that it no longer scares me. But it would be wrong for me to judge everyone the same.

[LadyRev]

Originally Posted by ILG

Yes, they were rebaptized because they had been followers of John. They were baptized unto a whole other person! Totally different than rebaptizing followers of Jesus because the baptizer didn't say the name over the candidate!

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I believe the scripture clearly emphasizes the importance of the NAME, not titles. Its not a "technicality".

As for exactly how the "name" is spoken and who does the speaking, I don't believe thats cut in stone. I defnitely don't believe a preacher has to be the one to do it. However, I do believe the scripture teaches the importance of the name rather than descriptive titles that basically represent nothing.

[LadyRev]

Hey, nice chatting with everyone! Gotta run!

Time to go join the "movement" of teenagers at Sr. Youth Camp! Now thats a movement.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

We will have to agree to disagree on this.

I believe the scripture clearly emphasizes the importance of the NAME, not titles. Its not a "technicality".

As for exactly how the "name" is spoken and who does the speaking, I don't believe thats cut in stone. I defnitely don't believe a preacher has to be the one to do it. However, I do believe the scripture teaches the importance of the name rather than descriptive titles that basically represent nothing.

Well, if we agree that how it's spoken and who does the speaking isn't cut in stone, then we seem to agree more than you may think!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by LadyRev

You and others call it "religion". I call it relationship.

I came out of religion when I left the Catholic church. I came into a relationship with Jesus Christ when I joined the little UPC church that was behind the house where I lived with my parents. I was 14 years old.

I DID NOT come into a relationship with an organization, a denomination, a personality or a set of rules. I found Jesus Christ and His love and my life has NEVER been the same because of RELATIONSHIP, not religion.

The UPC is my organization and church of CHOICE. Its not perfect because it consists of PEOPLE! Nothing with people in it will ever be perfect until we get to heaven! But these imperfections should not, and for me they DO NOT, change my RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ.

My parents beat me for going to this church. I am regarded as a heretic by my Catholic family members to this day. I am a tad over age 29 now.

I have no regrets.

Well, cool! i have always maintained that one could lose their religion without changing congregations...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by shazeep

Well, cool! i have always maintained that one could lose their religion without changing congregations...

I agree. But I do believe God calls some to stay and some to leave....