Is there going to be a rapture????

[Michael The Disciple]

1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

5 And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

These events are AFTER the great tribulation. For this to prove pre trib they would need to be before it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

My brother, you have presented a RAPTURE in Chapter 11....EVERYTHING from verse 12 on, I believe, along with you will happen AFTER the rapture of Chapter 11.

If you believe the rapture is in Rev 11 you are NOT a pre trib believer.

Rev 11 contains the sounding of the last trumpet. I agree the rapture happens then. But count back the other 6 that sound before the last. You will find you have been through the tribulation.

Rev 12-19 tells the same story over again.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

These events are AFTER the great tribulation. For this to prove pre trib they would need to be before it.

Yes my brother, the saints have been in heaven since chapter 11, waiting for the opportunity to return with Jesus to start the Millennial.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

If you believe the rapture is in Rev 11 you are NOT a pre trib believer. Brother Micheal, I said I was a pre trib with an asterisk, the asterisk means we could end up as far as the middle of it.(mid trib)

Rev 11 contains the sounding of the last trumpet. I agree the rapture happens then. But count back the other 6 that sound before the last. You will find you have been through the tribulation. Yes these prior events will be a wake up call for us to realize Jesus is coming. It corellates with what Jesus said in the gospels.."when ye see these thing BEGIN to come to pass, look up, for your redemption draweth near".

Rev 12-19 tells the same story over again.

Not at all, it(12-19) adds the beast, the vials of wrath, the battle of Armigeddon, the persecution of Israel by Antichrist and many other terrible things that the church will miss altogether.

A good O.T. parallel here is when Israel was in Egypt, they were divided from the plagues and untouched by them as they grew worse and more intense. The rapture will happen, far before things getting unbearable for us as we approach the doors of the Tribulation.

Revelation 3:10

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

[Sean]

Brother Michael, in the following passage, Jesus that if anyone adds to the book of Revelation, the plagues will in turn, be added to them. This IMPLIES that if we do not add, WE WILL MISS THE PLAGUES OF THE BOOK. The point I am making is if left to allow Revelation interpret itself, YOU and I WILL miss the plagues. Post trib again does not fit the following passage here....

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[Carl]

Could someone please comment on II Thessalonians 2:7? The verse appears to support a pre or mid trib rapture. Thanks.

[Sean]

Brother Michael, part 3 has been covered in different parts of our discussion, so I dont think it is necessary to repeat myself in answering that post. However, if there is a point I have overlooked, please feel free to ask my opinion. I personally think you may consider abandoning the post trib idea and moving to the middle, at least to a mid trib approach. I have been slowly going in the direction of mid trib for years, but a few passages still keep me in the pre/mid trib point of view.
With prophecy, nothing is set in stone as far as a our interpretations are concerned. That is why I always teach prophecy these days with an asterisk****. It is a way to allow others to share their point of view and be inclusive with this subject. It is alot of fun to discuss it this way. It seems everyone has a little different perspective on it. Watching bro. Baxter all these years is a classic example of why I want to remain open minded, yet believe what I teach. I have seen him wrong after some of his ideas were tested and he just moves on. It is important to believe in a subject and teach it with conviction, but this stuff needs an *****, just in case we get something wrong from time to time...LOL

[shazeep]

amen to that. ok, and with that said, i'll say that i am confident that there will not be at least the type of rapture that the est'd church promulgates--a bunch of people who have accepted Christ with their mouths, now waiting to die and go to heaven when Christ comes "in the air" to save them from themselves. Not gonna happen. Now, when you begin discussing a 'prepared bride' who has stood up to the forces of evil ("Armageddon"), and is being martyred to annihilation for this, when Christ then steps in--ok. possibly. if our translation (of a translation) of Scripture is being conveyed correctly. But it is just as likely that a spiritual thing is happening here, @ "rapture," and that our common understanding is completely naive--which i find more likely.

[shag]

Y'all reckon this generation will pass away before all these things take place, or rather the time is at hand and all theses things WILL come upon this generation?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shag

Y'all reckon this generation will pass away before all these things take place, or rather all theses things WILL come upon this generation?

I personally think that it is tied to the rebirth of the nation of Israel. The generation that was born in either May of 1948(Israels' rebirth) or June of 1967(Jerusalems' taking of the Jews) will be considered the last generation. Something will happen before either of these generations will die off.


I dont believe in the 40 year generation thing...that is nonsense. That is for the guessers of days like Harold Camping...