Has there ALWAYS been a true church?

[Esaias]

So... if Oneness theology and "Jesus name baptism" and "Holy Ghost baptism evidenced by glossalalia" are true doctrines of God's true church... then has there been an unbroken line of assemblies from Pentecost to today?

If not, does that mean there periods of time when there was NO ASSEMBLY OF TRUE SAINTS in the world?


And if that be true, how could any church truly come about ... during a time when there was not one single SAVED BELIEVER on earth?

[Michael The Disciple]

How can one say for sure? If there are millions of people on Earth AND for centuries no good means of communications? I would like to think there was always a Church somewhere on Earth that taught true Apostolic doctrine.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

How can one say for sure? If there are millions of people on Earth AND for centuries no good means of communications? I would like to think there was always a Church somewhere on Earth that taught true Apostolic doctrine.

I would like to think that as well. But...

1. Is such an expectation biblical?

2. If it were true then the church today has little to no actual connection with any prior true church....

3. If it is not true then do we admit there have been periods of time since Pentecost when God had NO earthly witnesses?

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I would like to think that as well. But...

1. Is such an expectation biblical?

2. If it were true then the church today has little to no actual connection with any prior true church....

3. If it is not true then do we admit there have been periods of time since Pentecost when God had NO earthly witnesses?

Im ready. Teach me.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Esaias

So... if Oneness theology and "Jesus name baptism" and "Holy Ghost baptism evidenced by glossalalia" are true doctrines of God's true church... then has there been an unbroken line of assemblies from Pentecost to today?

If not, does that mean there periods of time when there was NO ASSEMBLY OF TRUE SAINTS in the world?


And if that be true, how could any church truly come about ... during a time when there was not one single SAVED BELIEVER on earth?

The late Marvin Arnold spent many years, traveling the world, researching even the archives of the Vatican, in an effort to find evidence in support of his belief that the One True Church has always existed (although not as renown as it is today).

Arnold believed that because our Lord stated that the "gates of hell" shall not prevail against His church, then it must have always been present in the earth, and he discovered some pretty convincing historical evidence to authenticate that belief.

A friend loaned me several books to read that Arnold had written about his discoveries, but I don't recall their titles. I'm sure you can find them through a Goggle or other internet search engine.

[UnTraditional]

Originally Posted by Lafon

The late Marvin Arnold spent many years, traveling the world, researching even the archives of the Vatican, in an effort to find evidence in support of his belief that the One True Church has always existed (although not as renown as it is today).

Arnold believed that because our Lord stated that the "gates of hell" shall not prevail against His church, then it must have always been present in the earth, and he discovered some pretty convincing historical evidence to authenticate that belief.

A friend loaned me several books to read that Arnold had written about his discoveries, but I don't recall their titles. I'm sure you can find them through a Goggle or other internet search engine.

Apostolic History Outline by Dr. Marvin Arnold is one of my favorites. You can buy it here.

[Michael The Disciple]

I don't think the Church overcoming the gates of hades means what people think it means. It is talking about the resurrection of the dead saints out of Hades.

But as far as has there been a true Church perhaps it depends on what we mean by "Church"? If it can be wherever two or three gather in his name around Christ and the truth I would be willing to say yes it has existed in all generations.

Can I prove that? No. Neither can it be proved otherwise.

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I don't think the Church overcoming the gates of hades means what people think it means. It is talking about the resurrection of the dead saints out of Hades.

But as far as has there been a true Church perhaps it depends on what we mean by "Church"? If it can be wherever two or three gather in his name around Christ and the truth I would be willing to say yes it has existed in all generations.

Can I prove that? No. Neither can it be proved otherwise.

Michael, it would do you good to check what Marvin Arnold discovered. The evidence is rather convincing, and I'm confident your opinion might just be somewhat different should you elect to do that.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Lafon

Michael, it would do you good to check what Marvin Arnold discovered. The evidence is rather convincing, and I'm confident your opinion might just be somewhat different should you elect to do that.

I read Ancient Champions of Oneness decades ago. It was interesting. What was proved I think was there were always Oneness believers. If there is more proof now that there were always those who believed in it and taught baptism into the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit with tongues that's really good.

HOWEVER please don't make the mistake of thinking that Oneness and Acts 2:38 is synonomous with being the true Church.

The true Church agrees with all the foundation doctrine taught through the Apostles. One could teach those things like Oneness Churches do and still not be the true Church.

[obriencp]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...=marvin+arnold

Also discussed in pages 88-91 below:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...arnold&page=88